The Detached podcast
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Sophia
The Detached podcast
Ep: 76 Navigating New Beginnings and Personal Branding with Kelly Lundberg
Kelly's journey from a chatty child in Edinburgh to a successful personal branding expert emphasizes the importance of authenticity and self-discovery. Through deeper reflections on her past, particularly around family dynamics and relationships, she illustrates how personal experiences shape identity and brand.
• Exploring childhood influences and independence
• The impact of divorce on personal growth
• Understanding marriage through the lens of experience
• Transitioning from styling to personal branding
• The importance of authenticity in professional personas
• Managing expectations and the concept of overcommitment
• Future aspirations in speaking and personal branding initiatives
Find Kelly Below on instagram
https://www.instagram.com/kellylundberg.official?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
I would love to hear your feedback. Drop me a message on instagram :
https://www.instagram.com/sophiadelavari/
Kelly, welcome on the show today. I'm really excited to get into branding and identity building and you as a person.
Speaker 2:I love this. There's all our conversations over um Instagram, and now we're here, so I'm so pleased it's worked.
Speaker 1:I know I'm so glad. I think we were in touch, how it must be.
Speaker 2:I don't know how long ago, but yeah but it's like, okay, we want to get you. Come on, then I was traveling and then you check back in and anyway, we're here. We're here here to share some value.
Speaker 1:I know, I know. So I just want to kind of go right into delve into your childhood already. I'm like I want to be the therapist on the show here and I just want to. I just want to paint a picture of who you are as a person, from the little Kelly, yeah.
Speaker 2:Someone who talked a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Which is quite funny. Now I would always be the one that would get the report card and it's like you know, kelly is the class chatterbox and it's nice now that I actually get paid to speak, so I don't think it's such a bad thing. Um, but I'm originally from Edinburgh and I lived there for 18 years before I was ready to spread my wings and escape the Scottish weather. Like people always say, why did you leave? And I'm like Edinburgh is beautiful, I love it, but I don't love the weather and I definitely um it more into warmer climates. And I think I remember having a moment I don't know, maybe I was like 13, 14 thinking is this, it is this what life is about? You know the environment and I thought there's got to be more to it.
Speaker 2:And at 18, I applied for a job as a holiday rep and I think that kind of ticked the box of actually wanting to escape to the sunshine but also just do something different, because I didn't have that little oh when I was little.
Speaker 2:I want to be a doctor or a nurse or I wanted to be everything. I think the one that stuck the most was probably being an actress or something like that, but I wanted to be everything. I think the one that stuck the most was probably being an actress or something like that, but I wanted to be so many things so there was never anything that I wanted to study. I didn't go to university and I think probably a part of shaping who you are is through my parents divorced when I was kind of 13, 14. That shapes kind of who you are and I think that escalated independence more than maybe it would have, and the opportunity or the desire to want to live on my own and travel and do all of that thing. So I really think that pushed me into travel and I've kind of never really gone back.
Speaker 1:So how do you think the divorce impacted you as a little kid?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there was definitely that independence. I think when dad left, I very much kind of, as the older sibling I've got a younger sister kind of took over everything. Sibling, I've got a younger sister, um, kind of took over everything and certainly then it, um, that was weird, I think, the independence and and I think then it became just the girls. You know, it was my mom and my sister and I for quite a while and then I think then there was a new dynamic kind of into the mix with when my mom met someone and things just changed and I think that then escalated the no, it's my time to go and do something else. And you know, throughout that time, you know I had a number of different jobs. You know I find it amazing now that my nephew's coming up for 16 and he's never had a job.
Speaker 1:No, way, I know.
Speaker 2:Whereas, you know, certainly I think I had my first job at 14. I think the laws have changed a lot since then. So independence, you know, owning my own money, all of that sort of thing, I think has been around for a really long time and that's just continued to grow.
Speaker 1:How do you think the effect of like a divorce as a child has a ripple effect on your adulthood?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm one divorce in, so I don't know if that affects it as well, but I think there's always things I think, divorce or not, I think that there's always things that your parents have said or that then become part of who you are, until you're old enough or until you've experienced it yourself, that you're like no, that's not how it goes, or I don't want that for myself. I thought that's what I wanted, but it's actually not what I want. And certainly in choosing the man that you know you're going to be with, if I knew what I know now at 29, when I went in to get married the first time, um, I would never have done it. I would never have done it. But I think that's uh, I think that was kind of maybe the the hang-ups from kind of being younger thinking this was how it should be. I want this in my life because I'd seen what my family had gone through and, actual fact, I should have just been me so you mentioned you got divorced right?
Speaker 1:yeah, how long ago was that? Uh, seven years ago now wow, do you think, if your parents didn't get divorced, would that have?
Speaker 2:happened, I probably wouldn't have married or been in that situation anyway.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean, you can never change it, you can never kind of go, okay, I would never do that, but yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 2:Would they have? I could have maybe got married earlier, I don't know. My parents married at 21, um, and you know I now this is just my opinion, but I would always say, wait till you're after 30, till you get married. Yeah, yeah, that would kind of be, but I didn't get married second time around until I was 43. But I feel so sure and so right and I'm so me, and it's just effortless, so I do. Maybe there's no right time, but I would say you're just finding out who you are in your 20s so what did marriage mean for you back then?
Speaker 2:um, it's a great question. What did management for me? I think there was a huge part of security. Um, I think there was, you know, doing things together was a big part of what I wanted to do. But then when you actually realise you don't want to do those things together, then you're like OK, we've got a problem here, I would say that there would be elements of what else did marriage mean?
Speaker 2:Kind of just, I thought it was growing as a couple. But I do think that unless, unless you go together, you end up growing the other part and that was very much it went that way.
Speaker 1:And what does marriage mean for you now? Oh, it's just it's that word.
Speaker 2:It's effortless, like it's it's whether it's living together, it's friendship. I think values it's the one thing. I think I don't think I realized that if you don't have the same values it, it doesn't matter what you like, what you don't like. Eventually it's going to break down and you know, before I didn't have the same value. We've got the same values now and I think that's a huge part of the effortlessness.
Speaker 2:There's no friction in that and I think there is no. There is no desire or need to be like, oh, you're my best friend, you're my best friend. It's like, no, we have a great time together. I really appreciate him as my husband and I remember seeing something I'm trying to remember now. She's a very famous relationship coach and her name will come to me and I remember hearing a podcast that she was talking about that we cannot expect our spouse to be everything. We cannot expect them to be our best friend. We cannot expect them to be our spouse. We cannot expect them to be our sexual desire. We can't expect them to be this, this, this, this. They can't be everything to you, and I think that was a real reflection now going.
Speaker 2:They don't need to have your best friends for this yeah, your husband or your wife can be your best friend, but not in the same way you know you. You can want to do things and I think for me it's. It's about having an effortless relationship and we communicate so much. Because we were long distance. Our communication has always been really good, long distance for four years yeah, yeah, so where? Did you meet him? Um, so we're originally from uh, both from the same. We actually went to the same school together, so we're originally from Edinburgh. Do you believe that that's a coincidence? Uh?
Speaker 1:I don't think anything's a coincidence.
Speaker 2:I think it's all it was all meant. But interestingly we have talks about if we had got together when we had our high school kiss at prom and say we'd stay together you did yeah, how much time do we have?
Speaker 2:He's like, oh my God, you've gone into that story again. So we went to school together. So I've known him since we were 12. And there was always a bit of a kind of crush that I had on him. But he was very shy and at high school prom I asked for a picture and I one day wanted to show my children who my high school crush had been and we danced at school prom and we had a cheeky kiss and then I never saw him again because I left the UK and 21 years later my mum put me on Bumble in Edinburgh and was like I think you should meet someone, your mum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she was like I think you should meet someone, I'll manage your account for you and I'll do it all for you. Yeah, and she was like I think you should put this picture on and I think you should say this and and do this. We sat and had wine and had a really fun afternoon and one of the people that we swiped on was, um, my now husband. I was like, oh, mom, I said I went to school with him, I said I totally had a crush on him. I said we kissed at high school prom. She was like, oh, that's nice swiping him anyway.
Speaker 2:Um, we had a bit of a conversation back and forward and I remember he said to me he, I said, oh, my mum and I are on bumble, and he's like I said my mum's doing bumble or something like that, and he was like, oh, so is it your mum that's going on, the wants to go on the date, or you? And I was like, no, no, no, it's me, it's my pictures. Um, and yeah. So then we went on a date and and it was brilliant, and he was like well, when am I going to get to see you again? And I was like, well, I live in Dubai. So, do you want to come to Dubai? And he was like, well, message me in the morning and give me some dates and I'll book a flight. And I was like I think he's gonna do that next.
Speaker 2:Next morning he was like, you know, how are you doing, would you? You know if you're still up for it? I'd love to come to Dubai and see you when works? I was like, well, when's too soon, how do you keep the momentum going? And so we agreed. Three or four weekends later he flew to Dubai and we had our first weekend here. And yeah, it was. Uh, everyone was like, well, he's coming to stay with you. What, what, like what if you don't?
Speaker 2:I said I've known him like from high school if it doesn't if there's no chemistry which there totally was because, um, we kissed that night and and then, you know, got into the taxi, kissed me goodbye, and it was that. It was just the butterflies that I had had when I was at high school. But I just thought that only happens because it's at high school, and it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It happens when you're an adult as well so yeah so COVID didn't help with um sorry, covid doesn't help with um long distance, because we had six months apart, five months apart apart, and, yeah, he moved here 18 months ago and we got married this year and there's hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think I should. I think I should get my mum to start a business on helping people do their bumble accounts.
Speaker 1:You do the brand of her. So do you know what? I've had a weird experience when it comes to dating apps, because previously before I was on dating apps and I came up with this analogy now, where I feel like dating apps sometimes gives you the false perception that you're actually making an active effort to go and date when you're swiping, you're swiping, you feel like you're making an effort, and then you fill your basket up as if it's like a shopping basket.
Speaker 2:You know you swipe, yes, got you feel like you're making an effort and then you fill your basket up as if it's like a shopping basket.
Speaker 1:You know you swiped a large basket there and and you don't proceed to check it a lot of the time, so you don't actually make that effort, but subconsciously you're, you feel like you're making that effort, but you're not really. So I I've come up with the idea that I was like right, I'm not using any dating apps, so I need to make the conscious effort to actually engage with people in person yeah um, has it been?
Speaker 1:um, effective? Not not yet, but um, yeah, I that, that was my idea. I used to think dating apps were amazing and uh, yeah, I don't know was great on the communication like she she did.
Speaker 2:She did all the communicating, to begin with with everyone, um, as me. I don't know if that's getting still or what, but she did it as me and it's quite funny. I haven't told the story on a podcast, but yeah, but one of these, um, so it was the app that I had Bumble on was the iPad. So the iPad I just left at home it wasn't like my phone, was she had my phone or anything. And then so when I went out that night to to meet my friend in Edinburgh and I left her with a dating app and she was having fun and chatting to people. She really engages, she really asked questions, she's brilliant at writing, but it was all my life. So she got into this conversation, um, with a pilot who, um, you know, was saying, oh, you know, years ago, you know, I used to fly as well, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Anyway, a couple of days later, I picked up the? Um iPad and was like I'm gonna go and check in on Bumble and I hadn't gone on my date yet with my now husband. Um, so I was like, oh, still checking to see what was going on and I started up a conversation again with someone that we'd been. We mum had been having the conversation and he messaged back after a couple of bits and he said are you all right? And I was like, yeah, I'm great. And he's like, oh, you're just not as funny as you were over the weekend and I was like, well, that's my mum, oh no way, no way, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll hire your mum. I'm telling you I can get her a job, I can get her a job, but yeah. So to come back to Emirates, what was flying like for you and being here in the UAE?
Speaker 2:yeah for Emirates loved it oh, I think it's the best job in the world, honestly, at 21, when you don't know what you want to do. And I am not a backpacker. So the way for me to see the world at 21, 22, was to do it in a slightly nicer way through ID90s, through ID50s I don't know if they're still called that now and layovers. You know, we used to get some really lovely layovers in the old days, shall we say.
Speaker 2:For the listener, ID90 means 90% off flights, the pain when I left, um, that, um opportunity of having cheap tickets and paying for a full fare, like it was horrible. People pay for this. Oh my god. I can only go on holiday once a year, you know, because I'd been like I flew to Hawaii for, you know, a hundred dollars, like nothing where was the most memorable destination that you entered?
Speaker 2:um, oh, there's been so many like. Hawaii was great because it was a big tick off the list and I was thinking I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I'm will I ever get here again? It was so far. I went via Japan to get to it. Um, that was a great holiday. Seychelles, um, has has been one of my favorite and I've gone back since and it's where we got married, so it holds a really special place in my heart. Um, south Africa, I've loved. Um, yeah, there's been so many um, and I think the big piece is what my lifestyle has also allowed is as much as I don't get to see my family as often as if I was living in the same city. It's given us opportunities that we would never have had. We've travelled together. We've done things together that we would never maybe have done if I hadn't lived here or if I hadn't had cheap tickets in the day or just the desire to want to travel.
Speaker 1:What was the biggest lesson that you learned during your stages with emirates?
Speaker 2:um, in those days I would say attention to detail with service, um, that was this big thing, um, grooming like all of those. Now, what I talk about in personal branding, it's the small things that make the big difference, and I think that's one thing that Emirates in its day was so good about, so so good that I kind of get on on on now and I'm like where's the silver tray? You know they don't have the silver tray in economy anymore and I'm like it was just there was so much about the detail and the service and everything that I have taken into. I actually did a post about it. I think it was 10 things that being cabin crew taught me about building a personal brand.
Speaker 1:So there was a lot great, great post, because I I don't know about you, but do you ever feel like when you're on a flight, you want to get up and start working.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm always watching. I'm always watching like. I wouldn't have done that yeah, you're doing that. Ooh, I would deserve that passenger like that.
Speaker 1:So I want you to just take me on a journey of what happened after Emirates.
Speaker 2:So at the time. So I think, maybe to put things into perspective, so that was around 2003, 2004, 2005. And Dubai at that time was exploding. I mean, people think Dubai is exploding now. No, in 2005, 4, 3, the city was this energy and I do believe to an extent it does, that anything is possible. You want to go and do something? You want to go and buy property? Oh, you're only 23 years old, go and do it. You want to start a business? Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Like there was so much of that that I'd never experienced before that I kind of was like, okay, I'm going to do this. And, and the more that I chatted to other crew members, whether it was flight deck, whether it was cabin crew, they've all got a side hustle or there's OCs are doing a business. I'm thinking I want to be part of this. Like, how do I start a business? And I think that was probably where the seed was planted and I have always loved fashion, I think from a really early age.
Speaker 2:My mum used to make her clothes at the weekend she would take us to there's a fabric shop in Edinburgh called Remnant Kings I don't know if anyone's listening that will ever remember that and she used to let us pick her own fabric. And she would always say at the tail point, are you sure you want that? And we were like, yes, we'd like that. And of course now I look back at some of the outfits and I'm thinking, oh my god, but she made them, handmade them all for our holidays and stuff. So I'd always loved fashion, but I didn't necessarily want to work in a shop. I wanted to. There was always that calling for more. I didn't just want to be limited to one brand or one designer, and that's when I came up with the idea to launch what was then the Middle East first personal shopping and styling service. And I was very naive, which I think when you're young you are and there was how hard can it be to earn a salary?
Speaker 2:this is what I get with Emirates, like, really, it can't be that hard to match that it is. But yeah, I, I left um, I left crew with a massive loan because I was so determined to set up this business. I didn't have savings. I mean, you know what you got paid as Emirates okay, your lifestyle is covered in terms of house and stuff, but it's not massive. Those days it wasn't massive salaries.
Speaker 2:And I took a loan because at the time I needed to get a trade license. And in order to get a trade license this is how much things have evolved since then you needed to have 100,000 dirhams in your bank account before they would give you the piece of paper that said you're a hundred percent shareholder. Yeah, and I was like a hundred thousand. Like, even if I worked for the whole year, I'd never make that money with eminence, I'd not spend a penny. So I took a loan from the bank and to get because you could put it in.
Speaker 2:And then I remember the man telling me you can take it out the next day. I'm like I don't know anyone who's got a hundred thousand dirhams. My friends were all 20. No one had that. And that's when I took the loan and when the bank manager said to me I took it as a car loan. And the bank manager said to me no, that's quite a lot of money for for you, what kind of car are you buying? And I had no idea what to say. And I had remembered walking to the bank. I had seen in a little advert that someone Was it in HQ?
Speaker 1:No, this was on.
Speaker 2:Shakespeare Road up the stairs and I remember seeing in one of the little shops that someone was selling a Porsche for 120,000 dirhams and I'd seen that in the window and the man was like, so what kind of car are you buying? And I was like I'm buying a Porsche. And he said to me, oh, you've got great taste. And the money went into my bank account and that was how I started my styling business and I paid a huge amount back because I didn't need that amount of money. Yeah, so I paid it back. So obviously the loan repayments came down and the interest and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:But uh, yeah, and how long did you have that business? For 15 years, oh wow, so did that for 15 years, worked my way up, worked with some incredible people.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, you know, and I think the huge thing that what I did was I helped people's confidence. Styling was the tool. Helping people with clothing actually bought them confidence and when you're confident, you can take over the world. You can turn up at a baby shower and see your ex-husband and feel good. You can go and do your next pitch at an event and win the pitch and, yeah, the clothing helps you do that, but it's the confidence piece that that helps. So I it, I loved it, I loved it?
Speaker 1:did you study fashion alongside this, or did you just?
Speaker 2:no, I'd worked in fashion, I'd worked in retail, like before I had left Edinburgh I had worked in retail, so it was just one of those things. And then I taught self-taught myself through everything. Um, what did you use to self-teach yourself in those days? What did I do? I'm trying to think what I would have done. Books, um, trini and Susanna, yeah, yeah, which again showing my age but they were massive um then. So I had every Trini and Susanna book. I watched every tv show that I could possibly get my hands on and experience. And I got a job in a department store sort of once a week and there was volume. And then when you start doing something in volume, you quickly pick up okay, that was right, that's not, and I could style people really quickly. And it's that kind of quote where you're not buying into how much time we're spending, you're buying into the level of experience that I've got.
Speaker 2:But it was during having the styling business that I realised it's not just a business, you are a personal brand. And it was about four years into the styling business where I got the opportunity to work with a luxury brand. Which luxury brand? Harvey Nichols, nice. And when you're in fashion, you want to work with your premium brands. And when they contacted me to say we'd love for you to host an event, I was like, oh, this is the pinnacle of my career. These kind of things are so big and I think when you're an entrepreneur, it's really important to celebrate those kind of wins. And it was a paid opportunity and the marketing department had said to me please can you send me your pictures, your logo, your bio, all of that. And I sent all of that and they called me back and went and we can't use this. I was like what's wrong with it? And they were like, oh well, it's, it's your business. And I'm thinking, yeah, I am a business. And they're like, no, as a, as a brand, you know, and some, we can only represent individuals. We can't be seen to be promoting other businesses. And to me at the time I was like, oh okay, that kind of makes sense. When you look around designers, it's all a designer name that you're doing. It's not, you're not promoting another business. And I was like, ah, that makes complete sense.
Speaker 2:And then, as and quite interestingly, it was around the time of my first book and I was starting to go in and speak at different schools and I was like, where do I talk about this, speaking about entrepreneurship and books, and you know, things weren't fitting into the styling hat, so to speak. So then, after the Harvey Nichols conversation, I was like, no problem, can you give me sort of two days and I'll send you my logo? And I was quickly finding a graphic designer to go right, I need a logo and I need a website and I need it in the next week. And that was kind of where Kelly Lumberg was born. And then I had my styling agency at the time, which was great because I always wanted to sell my business and because I had a personal brand that allowed me the flexibility to be able to do that. But more and more opportunities came because of Kelly, not because of the business Media. Can you come in the press? Can you do this? Can you do this? Can you come and speak here? And I also noticed it at the time with an Instagram page, I was pushing the styling business and pushing Kelly. Kelly was growing much quicker than the business was, and people want to do people. People want to do things with people rather than just a business.
Speaker 2:What comes first, the business or the brand, personal brand or what do you mean, or the brand identity. Brand identity, well, I think it depends what business you're in, because I think for some people they are very much their personal brand, service-based industries. If you're the personal trainer or if you're the hairdresser, you know people are buying into you. It would be different if you're launching an app or if you're launching um. You can't go to market with nothing, so you need some sort of collateral. But before you do that, you've got to work out who am I, what am I doing? What do I want to? What message do I want to put out there? Am I all about being bright and inviting and engaging? Or you know what?
Speaker 2:One of the rebrands actually I really enjoyed working on was a doctor, a former cardiac surgeon, and initially her color palette was very pastel and but she was very bold, very dynamic and and, as part of her personal brand identity, we changed that into the identity of our personal brand, being very bold because it matched the message that went with it and who she was as a person. Because as a personal brand, people say, well, what is a personal brand? And it's I believe it's how you make people feel when they come into contact with something you say or do Now? That could be online and it can be offline, but you've got to give that feeling of what. What kind of person are you if you're going to be operating a personal brand?
Speaker 1:if I'm someone who is very inviting and makes someone feel very uncomfortable within my presence. What kind of brand was that? What kind of advice would you give me?
Speaker 2:and when you were saying brand, do you mean brand identity in terms of color palette, or do you mean message, or do you mean because I think people get a bit confused with that? So I think, what do you mean exactly by that? So I, I would say, start with color palette, yeah. So I think, first of all, before you even get to color palette, I think there needs to be who are you and what's your purpose. Because without that and what do you like? Because I could say, oh, do you know what? These colours will be brilliant for you and you go I hate orange, yeah, okay. So there's got to be this bit of okay, you've got to tell me and talk to me what's the goal, what's the vision? The vision okay, I see this, or I'd like to help people with this, okay, are you looking for male or female clients? Is it unisex? No, no, I just want to work with women, okay. So then you know, suggesting shades like blue or kind of more masculine, it's not going to work for your personal brand. Are you looking for something that's unisex?
Speaker 2:So I did a rebrand at the start of 2024. For years I had also been down that route of coming through fashion very feminine. But my book was launching, I was doing a lot of corporate speaking and my color palette and my identity of scripty writing. It just didn't match who this new version of Kelly was. With the book Deceived, the, the Lemon with the 2.0 of the, the business, and I think also part and parcel of stepping into a new life personally was getting married, like I really wanted to have this new brand. So I think it's got to start with who are you and then what's the vision that you want to go and what kind of things are you drawn to because you attract your tribe?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think there's that so, when it comes to figuring out your identity, what's the main kind of questions you'd ask?
Speaker 2:yourself in terms of, like, your personal brand identity. One of the things that, before you get stuck into, I just where do you see yourself in three years time? Tell me, because people then relax, because then they're talking about themselves. And one exercise I love to get clients to do quite early on is to create their future bio. So everyone's heard of you, know, doing a vision board and creating a desire statement, but I want you to write something that if I was to read it out on stage because I'm introducing you, what does it say about you? They're like oh, I've not thought about that.
Speaker 2:What kind of person that's when you think, maybe more in a professional way, what do I want to have accomplished? Do you want to be an author, or do you want to have a podcast with 10 million downloads or you know? Do you want to have won awards or do you want to have sold your business? And you're doing whatever. And I think that exercise allows people to think big before you go. Okay, well, who are you and what do you? I just love that exercise and then also getting people to connect with their personal brand values, so that I think is a really big exercise where you need to understand and you could pick 10, 12 personal brand values that are important to you and you pick three or four that you want to be known for and through that then you can create content. You can finish your biography because you want those words to come into your biography. So when I do keynotes or I do a workshop, we do a personal brand exercise and then, after that they've worked out what their personal brand values are, I will then share my biography and I will ask them to pick my values out of the biography. But I've given someone in the audience an envelope with my top five in it and then they have to tell everyone. Is it so you can see where and how did these values shape who you are and the things that you say yes to and what it is that you do? And it's back to how do you show up as a person and how do you make people feel.
Speaker 2:How did you figure out this framework? Trial and error, but the actual framework of uh, but it is very much trial and error, but the actual brand new formula I talk about in the book is very much I looked back like reflection, reflection, reflection. What were the things that got me where I wanted to be, and I think that's an interesting piece where I see a lot of people that go I'm a personal branding expert. Well, are you what? What have you done? Okay, okay, I'm actually a social media manager, so that's what I think people get a bit confused about, whereas I really believe I talk about personal branding from a place of building a personal brand. I've had a website since I was 19, so I think that you know you learn through trial and error and you've got to keep evolving, because nothing stays the same so you've got to be testing them out.
Speaker 2:So very much looked back at the reflection of well, that defining moment of Harvey Nichols was a big thing for me. So what was the one thing? I needed identity. I needed a name. I needed a website, I needed digital collaterals. I needed something that represented who I was so that they could promote me. And then I was like, okay, but before that, how and what do I want to be known for and bring everything in? And then I was like, how did I get my TEDx talk? Well, speaking is a huge part of building your personal brand.
Speaker 2:Okay, it has a lot of media. The spotlight. It's not the business that gets the opportunities for the magazines and the journalist connections. That comes personally, and again, I learned through trial and error when my first book came out in 2009,. Grazia wanted to do a huge feature and I was like this, is it? My book's going to sell millions of copies? That is not how it works. There's a compound effect. But anyway, they did this whole feature on me and I made it really clear that the book wasn't about me.
Speaker 2:My story isn't even in the first book and it was all about other entrepreneurs. It was called Success in the City. It was all about how Dubai had inspired me and I had interviewed all these people's different stories and when I picked up the copy of Grazia, they led with this title and I was mortified, from air hostess to author, and I was like, oh my God, that's not what I said. But laterally, you know, going through the whole branding thing, I had thought it was about other people.
Speaker 2:But press and journalists want the story. They want the story to connect and that's why it's really important that storytelling is part of the brand journey. When you're going to people connect with stories and find out and they resonate with you. And that's how magazines and newspapers sell through storytelling. And if it was just about other people, it wouldn't have connected it and I think back no, they went with it. Do I like that title? No, and it's the one magazine I do not have is. You know, I keep all my copies and I don't have that one because I was so embarrassed.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't think you have anything to be embarrassed about, but if you Google my name, there's some stuff that I'm in the paper for as well, which I'm not happy about. You can get rid of that, by the way. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, you can.
Speaker 2:And I say get rid of it. It's not about being inauthentic, it's just about creating more content that aligns with who you are now. And that happens a lot when people are transitioning, because you don't often stay doing the same thing, as much as you may think it. When you started, I thought it was going to be in fashion forever, and I still am in the style industry because it's still a part of how you show up for your, how you show up for your photography, how you present yourself. I've styled clients for their biggest keynote speaking events. They're still that part of personal brand, but it's not a styling agency now. But that transition took nearly three years before the first three pages. Don't mention that I was a stylist, that they now mention personal branding.
Speaker 1:So it's just you need more content how difficult is it to let go of your identity that you're so connected with?
Speaker 2:So hard. Oh, so so, so hard, and I think I was maybe nearly two years into it, two years fully doing personal branding, before I actually even changed it out of my bio that I was a stylist. Yeah, I sometimes stay a former celebrity stylist because it's still part of a little bit of what I do and some organizations need help with presentation of their team, which is part of personal brand.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it was really tough do you find it's quite difficult to manage your focus, because I know it seems like even at the very beginning of your career you wanted to do everything? Did you find it quite difficult to really hone in?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh yeah, but I think that's very much. I didn't even know what I wanted to do when I was a teenager, that I wanted to do everything, and it's a big thing now that I remember I sat down with a coach maybe seven or eight years ago and he counted up how many products slash services that I had, and I had 17.
Speaker 2:I don't even want to go into mine either, and he's like you gotta focus. And I was like yeah, but, and he's like no, you gotta focus. And it's interesting today I heard in a podcast that people really don't like the word niching, like they don't love to niche down and get this bit ultimately said. Another word for that is focus, and when you start focusing on one or two things, the energy goes on that and it grows. You know, people come to me and go. I want to be a motivational speaker. I've had a number of different client or initial client calls with that and motivational speaking is broad and I have to say I've got to bring you back to, you've got to be known for one thing before you can cross over and go hey, let me talk about everything, and people go. Well, I want to be the next Tony Robbins or I want to be the next Brenny Brown, but I go. But they all started with one thing. They started and got really good at one thing and then that focus and that, for me, is very much where I am now.
Speaker 2:There's many things where people have said can you do this, can you do this? Even from a social media perspective? I used to love still doing style videos, but it took time out. I did a lot of um content where I would wear um style, not size, and it was great content, but it was so time consuming and I'm like you've got to focus. You've got to focus on what is key my book, you know.
Speaker 2:I block out days that I have client calls. I block out days that I work on content. I try not to take a call before 11 o'clock because I'm most productive in the morning, whereas I can be energetic all day speaking to people, but that power hours in the morning till kind of 10, 10, 30 is where my magic gets done. So, whether that's editing book content, creation ideas, I do that every morning. So time blocking is huge. Um, and I'm getting really clear like I'm a goal queen I love goals. I love um creating systems around taking goals off. I read a book called the 12-Week Year. I love that. It gave me some really great ideas on how to who's that by?
Speaker 2:Do you know? I can't actually remember, but I created my own system of that and I'm really good when I take it off. I created a notion template of the 12-week year of the goals that I wanted to achieve and I put that into operation halfway throughout the year and by the end of it I'd ticked off so many of the things. So that was a great one. And then I also read recently 10x is easier than 2x by is it Daniel Sullivan?
Speaker 2:I think I can share, you know, because he's um, he's 10x, it's not his no, it's 10x is easier than 2x and when it comes to goal setting, that's brilliant. So when I really get into that and then I'm like right, this is what I'm focused on and I love it. How important is reading for you? Listening, I audible, I'm an audible girl. I very rarely read, which is really bad. I'm a book, but no, I I love audible. Um, I think I'm two, three, four hundred I need to actually check how many so I'm always watching stuff on YouTube, um, and listening to other podcasts and listening to books.
Speaker 1:I love it. How do you manage to have a balance in between business now and relationships and friendships?
Speaker 2:blocking. I think that's a big thing. I think a lot of my friends. I love meeting for walks so do I yeah, it's a really lovely way.
Speaker 2:I've even introduced two slots a week where my clients want to have a walking meeting instead of an in-person meeting on a Saturday morning. We can do that. I love it. So I combine a lot of exercise with catching up with friends or activities. I went to an event recently with a friend, you know, and again for things like birthdays and Christmases, we tend to buy experiences, so we catch up that way. My girlfriends I've got two really good girlfriends and we do a holiday once a year. So I do think that there is quality rather than quantity and we, with regards to my husband, we schedule a date once a week, so we always have a date time, and then once a month one of us has to pick something that is different, like a surprise or something like that. He's been less active about that than I. Have Work in progress. We're only married a few months. Yeah, scheduling like, honestly, it's scheduled and if Saturday afternoon is usually our date, so if we don't have it, we'll make time and do it another day.
Speaker 1:With branding right now, do you find it's more difficult to create a personal brand than ever before? Because of the exposure of so much social media platforms, people's focus has been a bit more diluted than ever before. Do you think it's more difficult?
Speaker 2:no, at the moment I would say it's potentially easier, but what is challenging is managing people's expectations. So I think, yes, you can create a brand. You don't know until you try. There's more people creating content that are over 40 and 50 now than ever. But I think the expectations of I want to be famous. Why is that reel not got a million views? Why am I creating that content? You know people get really attached to the vanity metrics and I think you know I signed a $10 thousand dollar client off a video that had 45 views. So I think no, I think there is very much the space, but the expectations and the intent on the consistency so people are consistent for a month or they're consistent for three months, but the intent to be consistent all year round and put systems in place for when you need your downtime or when you're traveling or when you're doing this, I think I think that's the challenge for personal branding.
Speaker 1:How consistent do you need to be?
Speaker 2:um, so I think there's a couple of ways to think about it, because you've got personal brand digital presence and then you've got personal brand in-person presence. So I don't think there's a magic number, like you have to post three times a year and two times here and one time here, because there's also how many times are you speaking on a stage? I remember a speaking coach said to me if you want to become a top well, a top speaker, you need to be speaking a minimum of four times a month and I was like oh my god, where am I going to get?
Speaker 2:this was before social media and podcasts and all of this we're going to get four times a month, and I started to create those opportunities myself. How did you create those opportunities? Uh, joined Toastmasters, so that was twice a month.
Speaker 1:I tried to go to Toastmasters here in Dubai right and I got the wrong, uh wrong room and I ended up being in a room where there was Irish dancing on and I didn't, I didn't want, I didn't want to go. I was really dragging myself to go to Toastmasters and when I walked into this room, they're like do you want to join?
Speaker 2:and I'm like, maybe yeah, and I think that's the whole thing, the intent. Okay, maybe there's not the intent to go Irish dancing, but there was the intent to practice that Create my own events. People always get really put off about creating their own event. Who cares if three people come or two people come? It gives you practice and then you can do it again next month and people think that they need to keep creating new content, keep getting better at it and better and better and better. So I don't think there is that one size fits all for everyone.
Speaker 2:I recently heard about LinkedIn that it just crossed over a billion users. Only 2% are active and what determines active is apparently only posting once a week. So in order to become more than the 2%, you just need to be posting more than once a week. So I think it depends on the platform that you're on. It also depends on you know. Are you in the media? Because people always say can you have a roi of your personal brand? And I believe you can. It's not just social media. Is what other opportunities are coming up for you? Or you've been asked to speak, or you've been asked to go on someone's podcast? Are you being asked to um, contribute to this article and people go.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just starting out so that that doesn't happen, and I think I just started out as well once upon a time, but I had to pick up the phone and a fax machine in those days and send a fax and communicate with people and even now you know it's. How are you going to connect with them? Linkedin ask if you don't ask, you don't get it. You don't get it's a big thing.
Speaker 1:So say, as an example, if I was a personal trainer, wanted to build my own personal brand, what kind of advice would you give me? What kind of platforms would I go on?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I think one I think from an Instagram perspective is who are your clients is? Who are your clients? Because if your clients are maybe mums that have just had a baby, for example, maybe those kind of clients are on Facebook and part of Facebook groups. That could be where you might want to be. Or if maybe your clients are professional C-suite executives, are professional C-suite executives, then LinkedIn is your sweet spot, in my opinion. But it's also about finding a platform that you enjoy being on.
Speaker 2:I had one client that was like do you know what? I'm focusing on two? I know that my clients are on this, so I'm going to go on it, but I love this platform, so I just want to create stuff for me. Great, because there is that part of doing stuff that you want to do as well. You know, long form content. Youtube is so overlooked in terms of if you've got an online business, you know. If it's online, YouTube's your answer. So I think it really depends on there's not a one size that fits all. It's about understanding what are your goals, what do you want to achieve and then, where are those clients? And, starting with that, what do you want to?
Speaker 1:achieve and then where are those clients? And, starting with that, and what's the biggest success that you've had in terms of what platform?
Speaker 2:you use um. I think that they all had, like that was that, that client, that um that signed up, that had literally watched a number of videos on youtube and they weren't high. I've got really high performing video, youtube videos on YouTube. It wasn't those she watched, just watched these six that I had on personal branding and this was 18 months ago and then just signed up. Off the back of that, had a call with me yep, I think you can help me. Yep, I'd like to go ahead. Brilliant. So I think there's that in proof that vanity metrics don't always um, don't always work. But I think Instagram's great from a monetization perspective. Collaborations they don't always have to be a financial reward. Opportunities it's your shop window, linkedin ton of corporate opportunities come out of that. So I wouldn't necessarily say I think there's been just one. I would say they all have their own space and I slightly alter the content for that as well.
Speaker 1:What has been the most difficult moment in your career.
Speaker 2:This probably goes back to what we were kind of starting. We talked about at the start was going through a divorce and feeling like I had to start all over again. And that kind of really coincided was you know, I've been styling for 15 years. Do I want to keep doing this? Like, what does my next chapter look? Like, okay, I've.
Speaker 2:In some ways it was exciting, but in other ways it was really daunting. Because you're like okay, hang on a minute, I'm 37 years old and I'm starting again from scratch not quite from scratch, but you, what am I going to do? How am I going to get new clients? I want to pivot into this sort of industry personal branding. I could see people were asking me to help them with more than just styling. They were entrepreneurs. They were people like me that I wanted to help.
Speaker 2:But it was so daunting that at the time I'm thinking can I even do this? The crisis calls that my mum used to get. You know, I don't think I could do this anymore and I think it's that having that support network around. You know friends, you know I needed to find somewhere new to live. You know, everything is uprooted when you're an entrepreneur. Everything is uprooted. That's personal. It affects every aspect of what you're doing and and that was really tough because I didn't feel at home. I worked from home, you know all of these things, what does home look like?
Speaker 2:But you turn it around and, as hard as it was, it was like this is your chance. What do you want to do? And I was like, right, okay, first of all, where do I want to live? And I remember thinking at the time pick somewhere. That if you could pick anywhere, where would you pick? And I remember thinking do you know what? I'd love to live in a hotel. If this is my fresh start, I would love to live in a hotel. How can I make that happen? And within eight weeks, I made it happen.
Speaker 2:And then it was like okay, this is your business. How do you want to make this happen? Okay, I want to be doing this. I want to be moving more into the online space. How do I do that? Okay, let's look back. And then reflection Okay, let's start offering this. Let's get comfortable with doing webinars. The very first time I did a webinar, like a hundred people showed up, all online. Like we're talking 2017, 18. Now people do them all the time, maybe even 2016, 100 people were online listening to me. I was so, so nervous, so I think that transition pushed me out my comfort zone so much, but I'm very grateful for it.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that you do to help manage your nerves?
Speaker 2:um, yes, what do you mean before I go on stage? Yeah, I created a playlist. So before my very biggest on like live speaking event, I created a playlist and listened to it before I went on stage. It was all songs that just made me feel so good and I put my headphones in and I just had a couple of minutes of listening to this and then went on stage and loved it is there any times where your nerves get the better of you and you don't perform?
Speaker 2:um, I, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say so because I don't know if other people would know if I had been affected, and I'm trying to think, if ever that's happened. But I would say I just always show up the best I possibly can, and for me, that starts the night before. To be honest, I'm an early bedder. I'm in my bed for nine and I'm up early and I go to the gym in my bed for nine and and I, I'm up early and I go to the gym, and that really sets my day up, so that when I am, I'm going into something in a, a really energetic space and I'm here to serve and I'm here to inspire and I'm here to to do that. So, yeah, I would say not so much and if it is, it's not deliberate.
Speaker 1:What makes?
Speaker 2:an entrepreneur, successful Consistency. That is so boring and it's such a cliche answer, but people give up way too early. They're like that service didn't work. How long have you been trying it? Four weeks, is that it. You know, I think they kind of they do give up. I do think you need to have the flexibility to be able to pivot, because often what we start doing we're like oh actually that's where maybe I see mode of a market or I've been asked to do mode of that, so absolutely pivot. But I do think people give up too early.
Speaker 1:What kind of advice would you give your old self, my old self?
Speaker 2:When you were in your 20s, in my 20s in my 20s um your young self, I should say, yeah, I was going to say how young we're going to go.
Speaker 2:I still think you're young, but um, my, my 20 year old Kelly. Well, I think 20 year old Kelly was still very much about. There was loads of ambition then. I think probably one thing would have been don't worry about, you, don't need to hurry up and get married, you don't need to there, there's no set like. I think there was a big thing by your 30 you've got to be married and you don't want to be left on the shelf.
Speaker 2:That was me, and what do you think created that for you? Um, I think maybe friends, maybe around everyone I knew around me was kind of maybe getting married or was married. You know, my parents married young. You know, maybe there was all of that, but I do think there was. Now I go, oh, no, no, no, no, um, but I think there was that big thing. So I was so happy that you know, oh, I was engaged by the time I was 29 or 30. I was before I was 30 and that's so stupid. Um, whereas you know, if I'd waited another two years, then it could have been a very different story.
Speaker 1:So because this is called the detached podcast. I like to ask the traditional question of what would you detach yourself away from? That's limiting you today?
Speaker 2:I thought about this and I would say overcommitment, and it's really something that I'm working on a lot, so I overcommit to say yes to a lot of things and I tend to do it, you know, oh yeah, I can do that. Or my husband's noticed it the day before I travel, I always go, I'm not booking anything, not booking anything in. And then you know he's all relaxed and all sorted and and then he's like why have you got 10 meetings booked in the day before? Well, I just needed to get that, and then I needed to do this and yes, I see, yes. So my mantra for um 2025, if it's. If it's not, uh, hell, yeah, it's a no.
Speaker 1:I I always use this if it's not hell, yeah it's a hell no but I use this when it comes to friendship actually, yeah, lots of friendship. Uh decisions, relationship decisions, business decisions. I think it's really important to not blur the lines too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know so the lack to stop over committing so that then I can also everything's work in progress, keep focusing on what's important. So what's next for Kelly?
Speaker 1:what's next goals? Yeah, big goals.
Speaker 2:So podcast for me is big. We were chatting about it before, so that is going bigger, um different guests, um different opportunities coming out of that. And I really want to focus on that, because last year was very much wedding book rebrand, like I had loads on. So I feel that podcast and speaking events so I've got my first. I'm hosting my own big speaking event in January and we're looking to have over 100, 150 people at it. So I'm starting boldly. I would like to say Personal brand retreat is something that I've wanted to do and it's been on there, so that's looking like that's going to come off.
Speaker 2:I've got a speaking event in May, so there's more and more and more of that. I want to serve more people, and how can I do that? How can I inspire more people to action, to show up unapologetically themselves? For me is by speaking, podcasts, events, hosting my own events, creating content. That's the goal. Thank you so much for today's conversation.
Speaker 1:You've been great, thank you.