The Detached podcast
Welcome to the podcast. This is a space where I get to vocalize my thoughts and dive deep into conversations with some truly remarkable individuals. It’s not about surface-level chit-chat—this is where we get into the real stuff. We talk about the things that matter: health, fitness, relationships, and the process of breaking free from the limitations we place on ourselves.
I don’t believe in small talk, because nothing meaningful ever comes from it. So, let's dig deep into the topics that can actually change your life. I want to bring you value, provoke your thinking, and help you see the world differently.
If you resonate with these conversations, I’d love for you to share the podcast with others. Your support means everything.
Let's get into it.
Sophia
The Detached podcast
EP 71 : From Cricket Dreams to Fitness Fame: Graeme's Journey as The Fitness Chef
Ever wondered how a passion for cricket could pave the way to becoming a celebrated fitness guru? In this episode, we welcome Graeme, known as The Fitness Chef, takes us through his inspiring journey from aspiring cricketer to a well-respected personal trainer and nutritionist. Graeme captivates us with stories of his English father’s influence, his love for the game, and how these experiences seamlessly transitioned into his vibrant fitness career. With over 1.2(actually 1.7!) million social media followers, three best-selling books, and a popular app under his belt, Graeme offers an intimate look at his life, academic adventures, and the family dynamics that have sculpted his professional path.
The conversation further unfolds to explore the delicate balance between a thriving online career and personal life in the serene backdrop of Aberdeen, Scotland. Graeme shares the peace he finds in his hometown amid the hustle of business ventures and the occasional public recognition. From nurturing friendships through shared hobbies to navigating the pitfalls of anxiety and insomnia, he opens up about the importance of setting personal boundaries and delegating duties for growth. Graeme's insights into self-care, creativity, and building a successful business offer a refreshing perspective on managing a brand while staying grounded and true to oneself.
Be Sure to check The Fitness Chef and let me know if you enjoy the episode.
https://www.instagram.com/thefitnesschef_?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==
Please feel free to reach out to me on instagram if you have any questions :
https://www.instagram.com/sophiadelavari/
welcome back to another episode of the detached podcast. Today's episode is a little bit different because normally I have guests on where I can actually research their personal life and figure out who they are, and today I have a guest on who has very limited information about himself and he's gained a social media presence of I think it's what 1.2 million followers on social media. Yet I don't know a lot about him. So, graeme, welcome on to the Detach podcast. Today I want to really get into the nitty-gritty about who you are and who is the person behind the app the fitness chef. So can you give the listeners just a little bit of a description about who you are right now? Who do I have sat in front of me?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's a good question. When people ask what my job is, I can't give an answer, so I guess, qualification wise, I'm a personal trainer and nutritionist. So I did personal training for about six or seven years one-to-one PT, and then sort of ventured more into the online coaching side of it, and then I was posting more and more on social media about five or six years ago, and then that sort of blew up on Instagram initially, and then TikTok and Facebook, um, and yeah, that's led to three best-selling books and an app at the moment.
Speaker 2:So actual best-selling books, because yeah, so um two Sunday Times best-selling bestsellers and another one was like a top 50 hardback. Um. So, yeah, decent, not quite number one best-selling books, but that's quite difficult when did you know that you want to be a personal trainer? Uh, so probably not until so. I'm 37 now, um, and I didn't become a personal trainer until I was 27, so before that I was trying to make as sort of a cricketer, which sounds bizarre, because I'm from Scotland.
Speaker 2:So my late teens I was going over to Australia, south Africa, over the winter to play sort of semi-pro. But then, yeah, I realized by the time I got to 23, 24, 25 that it probably, yeah, it wasn't going to work out. But what we were doing a lot of was strength and conditioning. Um, we had our coaches and I really enjoyed that side of it. So, um, yeah, I couldn't think of anything worse no offense than working in an office, so doing personal training was just a sort of natural no-brainer for me to do.
Speaker 1:So when you got into being a cricket player, was that from your teens, or where did that come from?
Speaker 2:My dad's played. So my dad's English, mum's Scottish, so he sort of got me into it because there's not too many people. As I said, there's quite a lot of people that play in scotland. It's surprising, but the level's nowhere near as good, as you know, down in england and, uh, like australia in these places. So, yeah, I was. I had a cricket bat in my hand since the age of like three and he was like demanding all the kit. You know, you got all the pads and helmet. So of course my parents bought me all this kit which I was too small for. Like the pads were going up to here that I couldn't wear properly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was mad keen on that for for ages really so when you're talking about family there, do you have any brothers and sisters?
Speaker 2:I have a sister who's two years older oh, okay who is uh, yeah, she's she. Um, we had a typical like sibling relationship growing up, fighting over the remote, pulling each other's hair out, etc.
Speaker 1:So, um, probably quite healthy, I think, in the grand scheme of things so did you have any pressure on when you were a kid like to do well at like your career or?
Speaker 2:um, no, I think I don't think there was any consistent pressure. I think my parents were always very keen that we did well in school. So if either of us misbehaved or there was a bad sort of parents evening, we would get like not quite grounded, but yeah, we would know that it was sort of wrong. Um, but apart from that, I don't think there was. There was much pressure. Um, both of us went to university and we were both sort of we weren't kind of guided by our parents as to what we should be doing in terms of subjects at university, just like, what do you want to do? So, um, my sister did art, which is a kind of obscure one, and I did history, which no offense to people who do history at uni, but I hated it, yeah, um, but I kind of did it and just to have a degree. But if I could go back in time, I wish that I didn't do that oh no, do you know what I always think?
Speaker 1:like, don't go back in time to change, like you know what you've done, because it wouldn't lead you to the position that you're in right now.
Speaker 2:And it's true. But yeah, you're totally right that you know if you, even if you change one tiny thing in your life, chances are lots of other things would have changed if you go back. But I just have it in my mind, I would be four years younger in this position yeah but, as you said, that's probably not necessarily how it would work out it's interesting that you say that, because I did art okay yeah and um.
Speaker 1:Well, I thought art was, it was like all the conceptual like crap that you see, and I like actually making something that looks like something. But uh, when you did history, was it what you expected, or?
Speaker 2:not really um. When I did it in school, I found it really like interesting, because I guess the subjects were quite simple to understand, you know, for teenagers, but when you go to university, um, I guess you go more in depth into very obscure things, and the options of things to study were not very interesting. However, what it did do was um gave me the scope to learn what good evidence is, so like looking at different sources, understanding what's reliable, what's not reliable, which is really important for what I'm doing now well, there you go, there's another transferable skill.
Speaker 1:That, yeah, I've learned you know, if, potentially, if I didn't do history, I'd be like uh, giving terrible information so sometimes you can connect the dots with, like, what you've done in your past and just it just comes in a different vehicle. With that being said, do you think, like it's normal, for people to come out of school and actually know what they want to do for the rest of their career?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I think, um, you know, I think your 20s is maybe all about discovering what you actually want to to do with your career. I think there's this idea that you finish school, you immediately go to university and then after that you have a degree and then you go straight into the job and that's you with your career. But there's so many people that go to university, for whatever reason, don't enjoy it, and then what? What are they supposed to do? So I think you probably have a lot of people who are 23 to 27 who are kind of like no idea what they want to do, and I guess I was probably one of those. I didn't really start committing to being in the fitness industry until 27.
Speaker 1:So in between those years of 23 and 27 when you don't really know what you want to do, like is that? Was that an unsettling time for you, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. I mean, I was kept busy by the fact that I was still going abroad to play cricket and coming home and doing bits of like coaching here and there. Um, yeah, but deep down I knew like this isn't gonna like last as a proper career. What happens when I get to you know 37? What am I going to be doing? So, um, yeah, and even, to be honest, starting the personal training, I had no idea it would have turned into this.
Speaker 1:It's bad, isn't it like um?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's like three million followers across all platforms and you think at some point it's gonna like the bubble will burst and maybe it'll stop. But I guess if you keep working at it it's just going to keep growing.
Speaker 1:So with that kind of growth, like when was the pivotal moment of actually being like oh, this is something like this is starting to come together.
Speaker 2:This is like growing so I I had posted over 2,000 times on Instagram specifically and not really got anywhere. I think I had built maybe 20 000 followers, and that was back when the algorithm was pretty favorable yeah, you could put in loads of hashtags that would work and get you lots of followers.
Speaker 2:So somehow I got 20 000 um, but the content that I was posting was pretty useless to people, so it was pictures of what I was eating.
Speaker 2:It might be a picture of me in the gym, so maybe interesting to like five people or something, but it's not really delivering anything useful. So then I actually started seeing that other people online were posting infographics, so compacting lots of important, simple information into like a square image on instagram whether it was comparing different foods, um. So I looked at that and I was like that's really a great way of kind of delivering people value. So I started doing that and I was terrible at it for about six months, um, and then I gradually got better and better. And then there was one pivotal moment where I posted a comparison I think it was between a smoothie and a can of Fanta, and the smoothie had like tripled the calories and I was basically just saying, look, this is supposedly great for everything, this smoothie, but actually if you're wanting to lose body fat, the Fanta would be the better option, albeit not the healthier option. And then that seemed to get like lots of likes and comments and I thought, oh, I'll just carry on doing these comparisons.
Speaker 1:And then, um, yeah, that's how it sort of started so when you said you were doing that for six months and it wasn't really great for six months, did you have anyone around you that were questioning what you were doing?
Speaker 2:no, and this is why I think part of me is slightly insane, because, yeah, to do like 2000 posts and get nowhere, I think, looking back, I don't know why I kept doing it, but it's actually something. You hear a lot from people in the same position and that they did a lot to start with and got nowhere, but because they just kept doing it, then they eventually got somewhere. But I think, you know, I almost just got used to the fact that I was posting and nothing really happened and it it's like okay, that's normal, and then just kept doing it. I guess, deep down I really wanted to build something and then fortunately, eventually stumbled across something that was really helpful to people, and so I just developed it from there and kept trying to sort of work out every single post that I was doing. How can I deliver the most value to people? Um, the most kind of helpful information how do you manage?
Speaker 1:like the rush of dopamine and checking Instagram and seeing you know people follow you and like you, comment like, because if you go through a period of time where you didn't get anything like, how did you manage that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, difficult to start with, because you get all this success that's happening and then when it stops for whatever reason, it's like you think it's all over and it's really tough. But then over time you sort of realise it's kind of up and down. But then over time you sort of realize it's kind of up and down, but even, yeah, it's disappointing when you do a post and it just doesn't do well because you've put lots of time into it. So, yeah, I'd be lying if I was saying that I didn't kind of get a rush initially, when people sort of engage with a post or it kind of goes semi-viral or whatever, and then the same. By contrast, if it's really bad, you're kind of like, but instead of um.
Speaker 2:I think one thing which helped me with that a few years ago was, instead of just feeling down about it and thinking, oh, maybe people aren't going to engage with my content anymore, I kind of asked myself, well, why didn't that do well? And I initially thought for the first few months of a post didn't do well, that it was instagram or tiktok that was out to get me and it was just like they're not showing my content to anyone. But actually it's always the content. At the end of the day it's for whatever reason. You just haven't grabbed someone's attention. It's not clear what you're trying to say, um, or maybe it's just a really random point that no one's interested in. So I'd always try and look at the content and say why did that go wrong?
Speaker 1:and then never do that again, and then try and do something different next time so when you were kind of building this presence, did you actually look outside other people who were building their platforms and did you kind of see what they were doing? Um, where did you get the motivation and information to be able to kind of change things?
Speaker 2:of course, yeah, always looking and seeing what other people were doing, um, but also trying really hard not to in any way copy um, because the thing about the you know fitness industry and, I guess, evidence-based practitioners or whatever you want to call yourself, it's like we've probably all got the same information that we're, but we have to package it up differently in a way to communicate it.
Speaker 2:But there have been lots of instances in the past where people would. Because of the nature of the content I used to post years ago it was infographic, so I wouldn't necessarily be on them, it would be pictures of food and things People would obviously steal them and repost them and it was really annoying, I wonder.
Speaker 1:did I repost?
Speaker 2:no, it's honestly fine if people used to repost it and tag it. It was fine when people used to like take a screenshot, go on photoshop, remove my watermark, put their own one on. It'd be like in the grand scheme of things, it's not important, but the principle of it used to really annoy me so much so I would go on Instagram and report it. But it takes so long it takes like 10 minutes to do one report.
Speaker 1:Eventually I was like I can't sustain this so I just thought, look, if they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it, it's fine so we're building social media now, would you say you've sacrificed like any parts of your life with trying to build this social media presence yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:I think, um, yeah, probably most meaningful relationships. I would say um, and I think that's something that I'd probably need to change, to be honest, otherwise I'll just end up in a dark room when I'm 65 on my own. So yeah, I would always be. I got to the point where I was pretty obsessed with you know every day what's happening with my piece of content from yesterday or the day before Checking the views, checking the likes, seeing how it's going, checking how many followers I've got in the day before, checking the views, checking the likes, seeing how it's going, checking how many followers I've got in the day, comparing it to other people in the same um space, which wasn't really healthy, and I kind of stopped doing that maybe two or three years ago.
Speaker 1:Um what was your mental health like at that stage?
Speaker 2:I think it was fine. Yeah, I think it was just because it's going well. But if, for whatever reason, I started, I don't know, the posts weren't doing well or maybe started losing lots of followers, I don't actually know what I would have been like. I would have been pretty down because I would be. I was putting basically my whole life into building this content and you know, I'm thinking to myself.
Speaker 2:I wake up today, I have to post at sort of 6 pm, so I'll go to the gym, I'll do other pieces of work and then I'll get to 4 pm and I'll be like okay, I can't do anything now because I've got to wait to do this post at 6 pm and post it and make sure that nothing goes wrong with it and check it for 20 minutes afterwards to make sure that it's going well, and you know so, just having that pressure four times a week posting, I guess you just get used to it. But at the same time you think other people are probably out of the cinema right now, like I'm having dinner but do you think like you could have built what you've built right now without putting in those hours?
Speaker 2:honestly I don't. I think other people might um say they have done, but for me, yeah, I don't think so. Um, a lot of people sort of come up to me and say who manages your social media? You know, I'm just like nobody, it's just me that does everything.
Speaker 1:I didn't actually realize that no, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:I think it's like a protective thing as well. If I give a password out to somebody else, like anything could happen with that, you know, um, but also, uh, yeah, I just want everything to be authentic, and sometimes, when you get people to edit your content for you, they don't do it exactly how you want it. Sometimes that's fine, but for me I'm a bit of a trial freak, control, freak, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I look at every single detail of everything um which is I don't even know. Maybe it's worthwhile doing that, but that's just me so let's uh pick up our control freak.
Speaker 1:When you were a teenager, were you a bit of a control freak, or like I'm actually the opposite of this.
Speaker 2:When it doesn't come to, I think it's because I've built this thing that I've never expected that I would be capable of doing, um, and so therefore, I'm just desperately trying to make sure nothing goes wrong with it. However, every other aspect of life, I'm the worst person that like deciding to do something. So if you and I were gonna go and have lunch, I would be like, uh, I don't know, just pick, pick somewhere. Because if I picked somewhere, I'd be like I don't know if you'll like the food there, whatever. So, really frustrating. People hate me for that. Um, just can't make decisions that's incredible.
Speaker 1:Like I I can't believe you've built this and yet you still can't make a decision on other stuff. But that's it's. It's a weird thing because I manage someone's life for a living and but sometimes I can't manage. You know, um, so I get it like as in. It sounds like it's your baby right now. So it's like you know you're nurturing it and you don't want anyone else to touch it. But, with that being said, like I just asked you that question of do you think you would have been able to build this online presence with all those areas that you put in? Like I think it's really important for anyone who's getting into social media now to realize that if you want to do something extraordinary like, you have to have extraordinary habits. So, with the life that you've created previously before and putting all those errors in, are you still currently doing that now, some days?
Speaker 2:so it's so, um, since it started building and I realized this could be something, it's been about six years, so it was about 2018 when it sort of started, and the first couple of years of that, all I was focused on was generating content every day to build, build, and I had no kind of financial income off the back of it.
Speaker 2:maybe, um, I think I briefly I had some sort of online coaching thing, but yeah, I just knew something big might happen if I kept building it as opposed to trying to monetize it straight away. Fortunately, it's led to the three books which started in 2019 and then the app.
Speaker 2:But with the app now it's like it's double the work so having to manage um developers and just obviously it's me that has the final say of what happens with the app. It's a daily thing with a lot of hours going into it. So there's probably slightly less focus on the social media content side of it at the moment and more on like a business side, because I guess, after after sort of uh, the app's been around for sort of five um years but we've developed it to make it a proper, you know, mobile app which is hopefully one day going to rival some of the leaders, um and uh. Yeah, it's time consuming. And then I think the first three years, as I said there, I wasn't really too focused on the business side of it, but now I think I am probably slightly more maybe 60 40 on the business to try and actually um deliver something like big business wise after all these years of building the brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that where you would have wanted to find yourself?
Speaker 2:so right now, I think, um, yeah, it has to be done. It's me. But I think, um, as long as make good decisions and it does, well, then eventually I could have like a more backward seat, and that would be good for me as well, because, as we've established, I'm a bit of a control freak. So, yeah, yeah, but I kind of enjoy it as well. It's quite amazing to have an app out there that thousands of people are using on a daily basis to help them.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, it is challenging tech stuff because the difficult thing about it is I don't have a tech background. You know I can't code apps or don't know really the first thing about it, but I am sort of learning things. So you are relying on people completely to deliver, kind of your business, or you not make decisions but actually deliver the fundamentals, which is like a working app that does things that you want it to that might actually be healthy for you, having to loosen the reins and kind of delegate and give those jobs.
Speaker 2:So because it is quite difficult when you're your own boss for such a long time it's difficult and, um, yeah, I would say one word of advice if people are building apps is perhaps to double check what sort of agencies you would use, because there's a lot out there that you will sort of pay them money and they will promise you the world, and a lot of them will under deliver, which is really frustrating because it kind of leaves you stranded. So the one change that I've made in the last few months is sort of getting rid of the agency that was building the app and bringing it in-house and having my own developer and it's direct and it's you know, that is their full-time job and the amount that gets done, the communication and the productivity is just unbelievably better and it's definitely probably saved me money as well.
Speaker 1:During that time of obviously having a bit of a hiccup with other developers, did you feel like, oh, I'm just going to try the?
Speaker 2:tunnel in. No, I was too far into it. Too far into it, which made it more frustrating, because it was like banging your head off a wall. Um, you know, waiting for something to be delivered. I think initially the app was nine months delayed, so it was supposed to take three months to build. Um, nine months delayed ended up costing like 2.5 times the amount. But at the time I was like, okay, this has happened. Once it gets launched it'll be fine. But yeah, things didn't really improve. So, yeah, I had to make that change and I'm really glad that I did it.
Speaker 1:Describe to me where you are from and where you're currently living now, because I know we had like a bit of a conversation yesterday and you were kind of saying you live like a very kind of simple life, so describe what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, a lot of people would assume that I maybe lived in London or, you know, travel around to Dubai every couple of weeks. But no, I live northeast of Scotland. It's a place called Aberdeen which a lot of people will have heard of but will have never been to because there's nothing much going on there. Yeah, I've grown up there, so I've got all my friends and family there and it's quiet and that's what I like. So for a lot of my time I'm obviously working. So if I was living here in Dubai, I don't know how much work I would get done because there's too many distractions. But the thing about it is it's, um, because I'm have an online business, I can kind of go wherever I want when I want, and I know I'm here in Dubai for the next 10 days.
Speaker 2:I still have to do some work, so I'll do a bit of work, but I'll obviously try and mix that with with other things, like golf, and that's another reason why I stay up and averaging, because the courses there are just so good for Lynx golf, um, it's amazing, I can just get in my car 10 minutes, play it, my, uh, my golf course, which people will pay like 400 pounds. They'll come over from america and pay 400 pounds a round and I can just go and play it. Yeah, um, so, yeah, that kind of stuff like um is quite important to me. So making sure every day. I know I've got work to do, I've got to organize different elements of the business or social media, but to get out to the gym or play golf or go running at least once a day and get out and do something is like a non-negotiable for me to do. And the thing about uh Aberdeen is that it's so quiet that I can just go out and it's like nobody's around and nobody will probably know.
Speaker 1:You either will they not really.
Speaker 2:no, I think I'm most so I don't really go out much in Aberdeen. I'm too old for going out at night. But yeah, going to London or even the last time I was in Dubai here was recognised all over the place, which is mad. I guess the demographic of followers that kind of makes sense. You know a lot of people probably based around London. Aberdeen's not got a big population but yeah, I love the fact I can just go out there and, um, it's like nobody knows who I am so how does it make you feel when, like, people are constantly bombarding you?
Speaker 1:if they recognize you, like sometimes do you just want days where you're like, just feed me, you know it's not quite that bad. I'm not quite at that level but maybe one day it's gonna get to that but, um, what happens?
Speaker 2:I'm actually quite uncomfortable because I'm, like I still, I guess, have this feeling inside like how is this even happening? Just, I'm just.
Speaker 1:I don't actually think my personality has changed at all from like 10 years ago yeah, so now do you think that would have changed, though, if you would have changed location possibly because you're in your natural habitat yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm just really grateful when people come up and because the things that people normally say is I love your content, you're absolutely amazing, and it's. It's like well, what are you supposed to say? You're supposed to say I know, or are you supposed to just yeah, so I'm like thank you very much. So in that situation um, not that it takes a lot of courage to come and speak to me, but I know that if I was to go and, um, you know, if I, you know, like andy murray or someone who's like one of my heroes I've watched all of his matches since we're about the same age if I saw him in the street, I don't think I'd have the courage to go and like say hi, because I'd think he would hate it.
Speaker 2:You know he'd be like oh, jesus christ, you know you got um so, yeah, the fact that someone has the courage to come up and speak, I kind of want to make them feel as comfortable as possible and not appear to be arrogant, because that can happen yeah people often say never meet your heroes, only because it can be a bit of a letdown. So I try and um, yeah, I make people. I just basically thank them for for introducing themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when we touched on friendships before I know, uh, you seem like you've kind of grown up in this area and you haven't. Uh, well, you went to Australia, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've been there four times, so six months each, so I guess a couple of years worth there um Cape Town, six months.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I do have friends like all over the place, yeah, yeah, um, which is which is good so how do you manage then or maybe you are not managing right now nurturing these friendships um, or is that something you find really difficult to do, nurture friendships?
Speaker 2:not really, not really, um, I guess. So the the main group of friends that I would have in aberdeen. We see each other fairly regularly because we're all into the same thing, like just golf, watching football, you know. We're in all the whatsapp groups or whatever. Yeah, I don't think I have an issue with that. The only thing is sometimes like saying no to going out and stuff like that, because I'm really busy, yeah, doing stuff are you gonna say no not really um why is that?
Speaker 1:why do you think you're not good at saying no?
Speaker 2:that's a good question, I think, yeah, missing out on on something maybe could be the reason, um, or I don't actually know the answer to that or do you think you're pleasing the other person?
Speaker 2:yeah, people, yeah people. Pleasing probably is close second um, and that's maybe just like a personality trait that some people have, because some people would find it quite easy just to leave someone on red or ghost someone. But I just couldn't do that. I don't think so. Yeah, even if it was like didn't want to speak to anybody ever again, I would probably still deliver some sort of message.
Speaker 1:That was sort of kind have you always been like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, probably. I don't think I've ever been mean to anyone yeah yeah although there'll probably be some people that will just like dm you now saying he was mean to me on this day.
Speaker 1:But no, I don't think so that I always find that really interesting. I think people are actually born with that nature to be like you know, oh the like people pleasing, I don't know. I think I I do think people have are born with it and it drags your life until the point where you start doing stuff that you shouldn't be doing, that doesn't align with you, and then you kind of have to.
Speaker 2:That's when you need to put the foot down when it starts impacting you're taking time out of things that you really need to focus on. It's just like, yeah, it comes to a point where you just have to stop replying to messages or if somebody isn't serving you, um, or it's having a negative impact, um, on your life for whatever reason, yeah, cutting them out is the only way to remedy that. Um, I guess trying to speak to them, get them to sort of change and explain that what they're doing is not actually helping, it's actually having a negative effect in your life, that could be helpful and then, but then if they don't change, I think it gets to the point where you have to sort of just cut them out. Um, it could be anyone could be a friend that you've known since, like, uh, five years old, but, um, it's interesting I don't know what, what you think like friends you've had since childhood. Um, do they like treat you differently now?
Speaker 1:and do you know what I always felt like when I was a kid? Um, you know, if I said no it was a big like it would be an argument with my friends or, like you know, there would always be comments made. So I'd people please amongst my friends. But now I feel, as we get older, we kind of mature a little bit, that we understand that we're busy and it's okay to say no. So they do treat me differently from a standpoint where they understand me more. Before they didn't understand me. So I would always say I'm a workaholic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the thing. So the group of friends that I've had, you know, at the beginning of this, when I wasn't being successful at it, I would get like the mickey taken out of me, left right center, and I was like, okay, well, it's fair enough, but I didn't like it at the time, but I didn't say anything. But then obviously, as it went more successful, I don't think any of my friends were like treated me any differently. I think they just started to realize, oh, actually, this is maybe something pretty decent, but they still don't realize the amount of work that goes in. Like I'm sure your friends probably don't realize that when you say no to things it's actually because they don't understand the volume of work. So some of my friends sometimes literally think my day is not doing any work and just spending 20 minutes making a reel, posting it, and that's it.
Speaker 1:I hope they're listening to this and it's like.
Speaker 2:I don't even argue or say that's not what it's like, because it's just. It would take me about five minutes to explain what my day is like yeah because it's different um every day and anything could crop up and it just um.
Speaker 2:You know, a reel, for example, will probably take me three, three hours maybe on average to film, because I'm a bit of a control freak and obsessive, want to make it perfect, and then editing it might take like four hours and then you know, so the whole thing takes ages and you're doing that multiple times sort of per week on top of everything else. But that's just like one example. When they say, oh yeah, you just sort of post a reel, it's like actually that piece of content probably overall took me about eight or nine hours and they'll be saying, okay, you're a psycho for spending that amount of time. I'm like correct, but the fact of the matter is, if it does well, you, it's going to keep getting more reach over weeks and months, which is going to help, obviously the brand, but also you can repost it in a few months yeah so it's not just like a one-off piece of content.
Speaker 2:You can actually and I've done that, um, for the last few years where I've reposted the same posts, maybe up to like six times every six months, because you'll have a new group of followers. Yeah, maybe your existing followers will, um appreciate seeing it again. So it seems like a lot for one piece of content, but actually you're using the return.
Speaker 1:It's an investment. Do you struggle to feel that people don't fully understand you?
Speaker 2:then because, like you don't explain yourself, you know yeah, it's so far detached from like the average job whereby, um, I know a lot of people work from home now. But I guess you maybe log into the work, log in at 9 am until 5 or just are communicating with people at work, you know, in a normal job. But that's not what I'm doing. So you know I'll post on my story that I'm playing golf and it'll be, you know, 2pm. So my friends will just assume you've just done nothing today. You've woken up, you've watched Netflix, you've gone and played golf and then you've gone and done a post and it's like no, actually I've been doing a lot of stuff do you know what?
Speaker 2:like do you think sometimes that could be the little story that you're telling yourself inside your head as well, being a bit like I feel, like they think I'm doing nothing, yeah possibly because there are times that I probably do nothing like, um, I don't know what you're like, but I so, in the evening, I find it relaxing just to like put Netflix on so that it takes my mind off of everything. Otherwise I think I'd go insane. Yeah, because there's so much like my brain doesn't really ever stop. Yeah, which is a good thing, but also a bad thing for certain aspects, like trying to sleep, so trying to put on something that just takes my mind off it, and then in the morning I'm really bad working from bed. Yeah, so because there's so much that could happen overnight. Yeah, um, you pick your phone up and before you know it, it's like an hour and a half, two hours in bed. You're not getting out of bed until sort of 10 30 in the morning yeah, no, I get you on that totally um.
Speaker 1:With that being said, like, what is your morning routine? Do you have a ritual or um?
Speaker 2:morning routine is pretty much the same all the time, so it it might involve working from bed for like an hour, hour and a half, um, but waking up and, yeah, progressing through to the living room, slash, kitchen and opening the laptop is like a huge step for me at any given day. It makes me feel like a normal person, um, and it could be anything from meetings with um, a developer, or it could be me kind of working on something else. I'll maybe do that for a couple of hours, make sure I'm having breakfast, and then I'll head to the gym, sort of lunch time, three or four times a week, or go for a run or play golf, and then come back, um, do some more work, and then it might be a day where I'm posting something. Um, do some more work, and then it might be a day where I'm posting something, um, and then I'm pretty bad for kind of ad hoc work as well, like if something comes up, I'll find myself on my laptop until midnight.
Speaker 2:You know, maybe I'll do five hours straight of something that just I didn't think was coming up, but I'll do it on my laptop, laptop, and yeah, it's pretty much every day is different, like things could happen, like if there's a big problem with the app, like a huge bug which fortunately hasn't happened yet, touch wood. That would require like a sort of emergency meeting deciding what we're doing, and that would take like two, three hours or something to try. And sort of emergency meeting deciding what we're doing and that would take like two, three hours or something to try and sort of fix the issue wait, where do you get your creative flow from?
Speaker 2:the most. Um, yeah, it's all. It's just all comes. Do you mean like the, the random stuff?
Speaker 1:yeah, like when does that pop up? Or do you ever have a moment where you're like share with an odd? Stop, I hate it.
Speaker 2:Design this I'm getting to the stage where it's getting like I've maxed out the kind of craziness. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do. Yeah, um, I'd like to do more collaborating posts with other people. Maybe might be a bit funnier. But, um, yeah, it comes from what has worked in the past as well. So if I look at a reel that has got lots and lots of views, lots of engagement, I'll kind of draw on elements of that for another reel. Yeah, because I'll know it's worked, and vice versa, if something kind of didn't work at all, I'll never do that idea again.
Speaker 2:Um, but it started because you know you can put music on reels. So the first few reels I did were really tame, kind of like contemporary music, and I didn't do any kind of weird stuff, a little bit of funny stuff. And then I thought I might just start like miming lyrics or doing crazy dancing, and it is so random that it's people sometimes watch them twice because they'll watch just to see what I'm doing and then re-watch it to see the information providing. So that's like double views almost. Um, so, yeah, the creative creativity I can't put my finger on it.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm always thinking of what will make people laugh, what's entertaining, what's uh, ironic, like a dry sense of humor type of thing. Um, like, there was one time I went to an amusement park a couple years ago uh, a really old one in aberdeen where you've got like ride on bikes and things like that and horses there was. There was kids in there on family days out, and I brought my tripod in there. I can't remember why I did it, but I was like this will be absolutely and it made the reel, even though people were staring at me like this guy's off his head and yeah, there's also outside tesco in a shopping trolley. Getting videoed was a weird one.
Speaker 1:Are you on your own when you're doing this? Yeah?
Speaker 2:If someone was filming me doing this, I couldn't do it. Yeah, because I'm actually quite self-conscious deep down. I wouldn't be able to do all of that if it wasn't just me. Yeah. So if somebody said I'd like to make a reel with you, we'll have a film crew do it, I probably wouldn't be any good why do you think you're self-conscious?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Um, there's a question. I think I probably had it for the for my whole life. I reckon I think everybody has it. Um, sometimes it's a bit of imposter syndrome as well, because I know there's a lot of people in the fitness industry that are smarter than me, know more than me, but for whatever reason, they on social media haven't found a way to communicate it to the general public like I have. So you've got all these great people that are doing amazing research and publishing studies that I was sort of talking about at Dubai Active yesterday that are just fantastic. You know they've done all that and, yeah, I'm the one talking about it gaining like heaps of followers from doing so. So I think like to to be relatable is really important do you ever get fearful of getting it wrong?
Speaker 2:all the time. So every single post I kind of double check, especially if it's got like numbers in there. Yeah, you know numbers, uh, uh, nutritional values of certain foods. I'm always like triple checking it because that's the worst, because the way I deliver my content, especially in like the talking videos, it's not, it's not, it's like a persona, it's not like I am. Now this is like the real me, but in those videos I'm quite dry, miserable, some people might think arrogant, like comes across as confident, but also slightly arrogant, maybe because I'm basically saying all the stuff you hear is absolute nonsense.
Speaker 1:Basically, listen to me, so if I get it wrong then I'm gonna look pretty stupid yeah fortunately that hasn't happened yet I wouldn't say I feel arrogance from your page, but I would say a layer of confidence yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you think you have to have that? I think, um, yeah, I think you definitely. People naturally, I believe, will stop and listen to somebody who they think you know the person knows about what they're talking about, whereas if somebody, if I, delivered my content like this which is okay, you know, I'm just like being me, but it's not concise, it's not kind of like to the point, it doesn't really have an air of confidence. It's a bit like, okay, this is just someone else talking normally in a chat, but if you like grab someone's attention, um, in whatever way, like a really confident way, they'll probably stop and listen and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter what you say, sometimes it's just how you say it.
Speaker 1:I think I'm like nearly asking you this question, thinking are you sure you're not confident? I'm like you get on stage, you speak to. You know you show up on social media every single day. Do you think maybe you're telling yourself you're not confident?
Speaker 2:I think that's so. I was actually more nervous doing that yesterday and previous presentations, other fitness events way more nervous than that than doing a post, you know ever. Because you're just post, it just feels like you're posting to a phone. You can delete it if something goes terribly wrong. Um, also, you've, you've edited that and made it so that it is going to be like just exactly how you want. If you step on stage, you've got no going back from doing something terrible or being awful. Yeah, you're just there, step on stage.
Speaker 2:You've got no going back from doing something terrible or being awful yeah you're just there, and obviously, when you're presenting by yourself, there's no kind of buffer to take the heat off. You, you know, if it's not going well, you, it's just you. You've got to like sort of figure it out, so um, they've just got a little moment there.
Speaker 1:If the listeners are listening of the girl, so yeah, if you're listening to this. Basically, you had a girl run up on stage yesterday that was.
Speaker 2:That was interesting. So partly my fault that that developed as I did, because she did ask me for the microphone and instead of saying no I said yes and gave it to her, which I kind of knew wasn't gonna end. Well, I think I made your job more difficult. Um, I was kind of looking at you to see what was happening, what you know. People probably start booing you. You were dragging a girl off stage, so it was really difficult oh, you handled that really well, unfortunately her mum came along but yeah, she started singing completely random.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I guess having to deal with things like that in a live environment is a lot different to social media.
Speaker 1:Do you tell yourself anything? To kind of calm yourself down a little bit.
Speaker 2:Beforehand. Yeah, what I tend to try and do is take my mind off it by just talking to people because, yeah, if I was left to my own devices, I'd maybe start overthinking, like, what if they don't like me? What if it goes wrong, um, or if nobody turns up, you know, and those kind of self, those nagging self-doubts I think everybody probably has them yeah, you were checking the football when I asked you.
Speaker 1:Oh, you going over your notes.
Speaker 2:I was checking some. I think it was like Barcelona Real Madrid match report or something how do you sleep before an event that you feel nervous for? Just find it difficult, find it difficult. So I've got a really overactive brain, um, and it doesn't doesn't switch off normally. So, yeah, sometimes I just accept that I won't get like a decent night's sleep and that's the best way to eventually fall asleep. So, um, what tends to happen is I've actually had it since I was quite young getting anxious about falling asleep which is a really weird thing.
Speaker 2:I've really been a bad sleeper when I've got slight anxiety about an event, or even excitement, you know, about an event or even having to get up early you know you've got an early alarm. It's like I might miss the alarm, um. So yeah, it's um. Eventually, I think I lie in bed and the best thing to do is just accept okay, I'm not going to fall asleep then.
Speaker 2:And then within 10 minutes, you're asleep yeah so the more you get anxious about what you're doing the next day it gets worse when you kind of think to yourself I'm not going to be rested, I'm not falling asleep, and that's another level of anxiety yeah which is, once you make peace with that, eventually you can just sort of fall asleep. So I kind of tell myself, that's fine, I'll just do it on no sleep, and then I'll fall asleep.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like reverse psychology with myself yeah, I'm, someone tells me to do something I don't really want, I'll always rebel against what I'm telling myself. So sometimes yeah, you just have to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally get you on that, like yeah, maybe um, I had this bizarre thing right which worked for a while, and it was right. So, say, I had a presentation. Yeah, people are going to be like, okay, this guy is definitely crazy when they hear this. So you've got a presentation the next day. You know, obviously this is why you can't sleep, so you're just kind of lying in bed and you're nervous about it. That's why you're still awake. So I would be. I'm obviously in bed. So this is where the idea came from. I was like telling myself okay, it's fine, tomorrow there's going to be a bed next to the stage with an enclosed box that no one can see me and I can just go and sleep in it instead of giving the presentation. And that was that was relaxing me. That was really weird do you drink alcohol?
Speaker 2:no, I, I like I I'd say I drink maybe three, four times a year at an event. Sorry, I thought you were asking do you drink alcohol before, like talking about?
Speaker 1:it no, no, no, no Okay okay, no, not really.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So like I wouldn't have a casual drink at home, I just like don't see the need. A lot of people like it because it takes the edge off or they enjoy the taste of beer or wine, but I'm just not like that, you know did you grow up in an ecosystem where, like you know, your parents or your sister was drinking or anything like that, or you just made that decision yourself?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, I think it's fairly normal. Like my parents would maybe have a glass of wine at the weekend, my sister, um, yeah, she'd do. Classic, well, we both did it. When you're teenagers and you get drunk, yeah, first time. Yeah, the first time it happened to me I was a party and I was being fed like straight vodka and I was not in a good way for like three days. Um, I think it's mainly it comes from my lifestyle is quite active. You know, I'm always wanting to go to the gym, play golf, used to play football, used to play cricket, so I'd always be training and all these kind of things. So drinking didn't really fit in with that and I just carried this on. That said, if it's like a stag do or a wedding, I will obviously just drink, but I can't drink as much as my mates because they would drink more regularly. Um, and I know like the limit as well. So, but also, I prefer to not have hangovers yeah how good is life without hangovers?
Speaker 2:I know but I will regularly go like six, seven months without drinking, not telling myself to not drink. It's just. That's just my life the way it's happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you suffer from anxiety?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think so. Um, I would say, yeah, I think it's just natural, just with what has been built. I don't think I did before, but that is probably one of the downsides to um building what I have done yeah, yeah, so because the fall is a lot larger than ever before if one day, um, for whatever reason, your social media accounts disappeared or something happened, it's like, yeah, what happens? Or you know, something goes terribly wrong with the app.
Speaker 2:But very much um a person who does think I feel like stop talking about this because I'm like I don't even speak it out now yeah, I genuinely always think worst case scenarios for everything, which can be a good thing, but can also be very unnecessary, pointless and cause more anxiety.
Speaker 1:Um, I'd love to sit inside your brain for a day, because I just feel like it's. Your imagination is just doesn't stop, it's just, yeah, probably different like a movie, you know yeah, I would say so so when we're talking about anxiety, is there anything that's really triggering for you?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, there are things that have happened business-wise over the last year, such as like bug reports and emails coming in from users, and that was triggering because it was just all the time so we had a lot of problems with the app, which have all fixed now.
Speaker 2:The app is fantastic now, but initially, um, a lot of things weren't working well with it and they weren't being fixed properly. So when another email came in, it would almost be like I'm helpless to this. I'm gonna have to report it to the previous developers again. I can't do anything about it. I just have to sit and wait and see if they're gonna fix it and I have no trust that they're going to fix it and then I'll get more emails in um and I have somebody who works for me for admin and stuff like that, and so she would get emails in but, she wouldn't know how to respond.
Speaker 2:So she would message me and say what's going on here and I'll be like I don't know. And so, yeah, I think that last year was probably the hardest year. Uh, I would say it started infiltrating into just personal life. Talk about sleep. There were some days I couldn't get to sleep until 9am in the morning. It got really bad last December, december, um. So yeah, that was tough, just next level anxiety that I never wouldn't wish on anyone how's your mental health during those times?
Speaker 2:because obviously lack of sleep like it's yeah, it just has a knock-on effect because you've got no energy to conduct your, your normal life. You know you can't. Even your capacity to just think and do normal things, like even create content, is just diminished. Yeah, because you just have no energy, and let alone doing things that you really like, like going to the gym, um, playing golf or or doing those types of things uh, you just have no energy to do it, to do them. You know, with no sleep deprivation, your mental health is just down, you, you make hasty decisions.
Speaker 2:You think irrationally it's or you make. What I found was I could make any decision, so sometimes I'd just be sitting at the laptop and paralyzed it's like, yeah, almost paralyzed, because you're so tired you don't know what you should be focusing on and you can't focus on something, so you end up sort of getting nothing done throughout the day and yeah, that was difficult. Probably went on, luckily for me, for about a month or six weeks and that's a long time well, it wasn't quite that bad.
Speaker 2:So, um, like the worst time would be not getting any sleep and maybe getting two hours sleep and waking up, um. But fortunately it was all centered around the the app because it was delayed and it was supposed to launch in march 2023 eventually came out in january 2024 and if it missed january because that is the time where people want to make changes, that's just ideal time if it missed that timing, probably would have gone out of business in terms of the app, because I'd invested so much money all year and not made a return because it wasn't ready, it wasn't generating revenue. So all these things in my mind that these developers had basically had no reliable, uh, no, um, trust in them.
Speaker 2:They were going to deliver yeah because they'd let me down so many times. So if we missed january, it was like it's just, it was just never ending. I just thought it was never going to launch and it was just yeah. But fortunately it did. And then, as soon as it did, I started sleeping again yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, I think. Uh like, yeah, when you have a busy mind like that, sleep is like the lowest of the priority chain when it comes to like switching off. Yeah, it's yeah. So what would you recommend?
Speaker 2:yeah, how about the solution well, I tried. You know lots of things which I don't think there is a solution. There's not a a medical solution. It's it. It definitely must come from, like what's going on in your, your brain, at the time, or yeah, what story you tell yourself? Possibly. Yeah, like I tried things like you know, the over-the-counter flu things to just try and sort of knock yourself out, but then your body gets used to them yeah so you end up doing more damage.
Speaker 2:And if you had proper sleeping pills from the doctor? I tried that and I took one. I slept for 11 hours and it was amazing. And then, a couple of nights after that, I took one, didn't sleep at all. But that's a very dangerous path to go down doing that. So I genuinely think people will always talk about things like meditation and trying to relax yourself. The environment switch or don't allow your phone in your room, don't watch tv. But for anybody out there who does all that but still can't sleep sometimes uh, like myself- yeah what are you supposed to do in that case?
Speaker 2:for me, I think, when I'm in a routine of normality and everything's going okay, switching off could be the form of watching tv, or maybe even watching something else, or, I don't know maybe going through your phone. It maybe tires you out, I don't know and then eventually you got a routine. You can sort of fall asleep all right.
Speaker 1:so since this is called the detached podcast, I have like a leading question that I normally finish on what would you detach yourself? That's limiting you today?
Speaker 2:You need to explain that question.
Speaker 1:It can be something physical, it can be something. So what would you detach yourself from?
Speaker 2:Oh, so what would I remove from my life? What would you detach yourself from?
Speaker 1:That's like taking away from your true potential.
Speaker 2:That is a good question. I would yeah, I would detach myself from the day-to-day things like constantly checking analytics to make sure things are going okay on social media, and also analytics on, like the business side of things see how many users are there. I would love to be in a place where someone else is sort of doing that and reporting it to me. So would you give that job to someone else is sort of doing that and reporting?
Speaker 1:it to me. Um, so would you give that job to someone else and then? Yeah, yeah so is this you saying? Maybe you might loosen the reins and hand it to someone?
Speaker 2:else. Yeah, I think it's, it's a good plan to do. I think that is that that has been in my plan for like a few months and I think I will do that. Um, what I've learned is hiring people is quite a process. You can't just go and pluck someone from anywhere. You probably have to go through a recruiter and then do a few interviews and even then it's like still a risk. So that's another element as well. Me just like like trusting somebody to say, okay, I'll give you a go for a period of time and see how you go on. Because if I was to interview someone, if they did really well, if there was one thing that was a bit questionable, I might think that's it. But what I would need to understand is not everyone's perfect. I'm certainly not perfect. So, yeah, I would probably detach myself from like the weeds of the nitty gritty of the business, so to speak, so that I could just basically oversee everybody but have confidence that they were delivering and doing their jobs.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hold you to that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to hold you to that.
Speaker 1:I'll be like when you open six months time now, I'll be like I'll be like coasting on a beach no work I just want to say thank you so much for today's conversation. You've been great. Now I actually understand who's behind the app awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for having me as well.