The Detached podcast
Welcome to the podcast. This is a space where I get to vocalize my thoughts and dive deep into conversations with some truly remarkable individuals. It’s not about surface-level chit-chat—this is where we get into the real stuff. We talk about the things that matter: health, fitness, relationships, and the process of breaking free from the limitations we place on ourselves.
I don’t believe in small talk, because nothing meaningful ever comes from it. So, let's dig deep into the topics that can actually change your life. I want to bring you value, provoke your thinking, and help you see the world differently.
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Sophia
The Detached podcast
EP : 62 Paris Norris: Survived a 5000km Row across the Pacific Ocean & shares the true meaning of life.
What shapes our sense of belonging and adaptation in a rapidly globalizing world? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Paris Norris, the man behind the widely acclaimed TV show "The Guy in Dubai," as he shares his fascinating journey of cultural identity and adaptation. Paris' multicultural heritage, spanning Irish, English, Sri Lankan, and Portuguese roots, offers a unique lens through which he navigates the cosmopolitan city of Dubai. He reflects on his rural upbringing in Somerset, England, and a pivotal family trip to India that profoundly influenced his worldview.
In this episode, Paris takes us through his personal metamorphosis, drawing stark contrasts between the cultural mores of the UK and Ireland and the liberating possibilities of Dubai. His story of building confidence through sports, achieving school records, and earning a scholarship at Millfield demonstrates how ambition and dedication can shape one's destiny. Delving into his complex relationship with his father, Paris shares poignant life lessons, recounting how familial upheavals and financial struggles molded his resilience and drive.
But it doesn’t stop there. Paris lets us in on his thrilling adventures, including a life-changing Christmas decision to quit alcohol and set new, ambitious goals. From creating his TV show to surviving treacherous ocean storms, his tales of determination and survival are nothing short of inspiring. Wrapping up, Paris discusses the delicate balance between living in the moment and striving for future growth, underscoring the importance of gratitude and steady progress. Don't miss this compelling episode filled with life lessons, extreme adventures, and a deep dive into cultural identity and adaptation.
Welcome back to another episode of the Detached podcast. Today I have the lovely Paris on. Do you want to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm Paris Norris and I am the guy in Dubai. That's what people know me as for my TV show, and I've been in the UAE now 15 years, as we were just discussing and, yeah, it's a pleasure to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on today. I have wanted to ask you so many questions off mic, but I feel like I want to get right into the nitty-gritty now and understand where do you actually come from?
Speaker 2:because I can see there's a mix okay, so, yes, so ethnically I'm I've worked it out actually, because I traced all my roots, uh, and it gets confusing because the further you back in your family tree you realize like you're actually from everywhere, and and then the further you go back you realize actually we're all from africa. But, uh, but if we just go sort of to great grandparent level and consider that to be, uh, where I come from, um, I'm this is how I managed to calculate it three-eighths Irish oh which is the most of my ethnic makeup one-quarter English, one-quarter quarter english, one quarter sri lankan and one eighth portuguese no way I would not have guessed that.
Speaker 1:Honestly speaking, I would not have guessed that I would have said well, middle eastern, like I don't know I. I had a feeling that potentially you might be iranian for some reason well.
Speaker 2:So this is why I said I only calculated it up to great-grandparent level, because the truth is like, when you actually look at these things in more detail, if I say, for example, that I'm Irish which you are too the Irish originally, the early Irish ethnicity comes from the Berber tribe in North Africa. Sri Lankans originated from, or the Sinhalese of the Sri Lankans originated from Rajasthan, they believe, and the Rajasthans came from Iran. So there is a bit of that. The Tamils that live in Sri Lanka come from South India and the Tamils in South India actually came from Africa. So like how genealogy kind of spread around the world in different eras, uh, is is something that I find quite interesting. But you know, then the question is is like, where are you from? It's it's very complicated for anybody to actually answer that, so so I just go to great-grandparent level and just call it that, but nationality-wise, if that's another way to categorize it, I'm Irish and British.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But culturally I'm from the southwest of England, from a place called Somerset, and that's pretty much all I know myself to be really, and I come from a very rural area. I grew up in a forest where we were just one house and it was just forest for another 12 miles until the next house. So growing up I had to sort of make my own fun. There was no, there was no ten pin bowling or uh, entertainment uh, when I was younger. So that's kind of how I grew up and that's the only thing I feel like I'm really associate with, because as much as I love going to ireland and I really love the irish and I and I've been to Sri Lanka and it's amazing and Portugal, I mean, I don't feel much connection there, but my auntie lives there and I love those places and I love the people, but when I'm not one of them, you know and, uh, you know, I can only really associate with, uh, what I call home so because you've a couple of different roots, do you find it very difficult to feel like anywhere?
Speaker 1:feels like home?
Speaker 2:well, actually it's. It's interesting because as I've gotten older and I see my, my british friends, for example, who maybe don't have as much ethnic mix as I do, um, I find that I have what they have in terms of I can fit in as being British, but I have something else, because I can also mix much better than I can see them doing internationally. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I find it funny because I've got some friends who, as open-minded as they try to be and as international as they wish they are you know, international as they wish they are they still find it difficult to really feel comfortable in other cultures. And I think that's probably not just the British, but we all do. You know, we obviously are more familiar with what we know and less familiar with other people's cultures. But so having that just that little twist and, you know, a little bit of internationalness, I think has given me more comfort in dealing with other nationalities.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's in your genes or do you think that can be learned, because I feel like being in Dubai for 15 years. It's you kind of you kind of learn this experience, or do you think it's actually engraved in your genes? I don't think it's you kind of? You kind of learn this experience, or do you think it's actually engraved in your genes?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's genes. I think it's upbringing yeah you know.
Speaker 2:So I think anything you learn early in life or the exposure that you have early in life, um, it takes you a lot further. I mean, if, if you move to dubai, which is a very international place, as an adult, it will obviously open your eyes to many cultures, you'll learn a lot more about people from different nationalities, but if you learn that younger, it's really useful. The the best thing that happened to me in my whole lifetime in terms of opening my eyes to the rest of the world was when my mum decided to take me and my sister out of school at age I was six and she was eight, um, and the school said you can't do that. The government says that you have to. You know you have to go to school. Yeah, um. And my mum said I don't care, because I'm going to take them to india and we're going to go travel around the whole of india for about six months.
Speaker 2:That's insane and you can imagine, you know, coming from a sort of, you know, a british culture and you know everything we knew was that going to india. You know it was amazing. You know, come off the airplane and the different smells of incense and you know the mass number of people and you know, first time really seeing serious poverty, which was pretty bad, you know, 30 years ago, um, and it was amazing. And being able to relate with people like that, you know, because I would just play with other kids in the street. And now, when, I you know, haven't grown up and I feel like I understand Indian people, but just generally, uh, phil, if it is someone that I've met from a nationality that I'm not familiar with, that that I know, given a bit of time to try and understand them, that actually, uh, I will understand what's what, what's amazing about them? Because often we find things, we can find people cold, because we don't understand their manner.
Speaker 2:We can find people rude because we don't understand their manner, but if you give a bit of time to do that, you know, if you ever travel to a country, you always come away going. Oh yeah, the people are great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it takes a certain mindset as well to be open to see going. Oh, you know, the people are great. Yeah, yeah, I think, um, it takes a certain mindset as well to be open to see that you know people. They don't realize that you know someone's coldness is actually can be caring and nurturing, but it's how you visualize that and how you digest that. Some people are open-minded to that and they can just pass judgment very quickly.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and what's even more important is that we understand how our manners and what we've been brought up might be perceived by other people. I've made lots of mistakes Because you know we think we're being funny, we think we're being warm, but other people might not see it that way. So, and living in the middle east and in dubai has definitely helped me garner a more neutral, internationally neutral way of communicating and dealing with people.
Speaker 2:Because when I left britain and I had my you know, my big red polo socks on and I was just being really loud and saying outrageous jokes, which I thought was funny, I realized it wasn't syncing very well with other people. And then you realize, ok, I need to, you know, tone down my Britishness, because that's that doesn't go very far, unless I'm just going to hang out with the types of British people and start figuring out how to communicate in a way that is more neutral, that everybody understands.
Speaker 2:And certainly I can feel it, because here if you ever see somebody who's, let's say, fresh off the boat you know who's just come over you can see how they haven't adapted to that yet. And it's very obvious and it just reminds me of how I used to be when I first came.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? I'm still figuring it out sometimes because I've gone. I went from fitness to finance and I started working in an investment firm and I remember speaking to someone and I really offended them and I had no clue that I offended them, but I wasn't speaking their, their language. When it came to finance, because I came from fitness, I was quite relaxed. So even still, when you change certain industries, your cultural differences, as well as the different industries that you're in, can sometimes be digested um, not the way that you feel like you're portraying it to be so.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, sometimes I think it's different industry changes, as well as cultural differences, that can have an impact on that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, there's corporate cultures and there's definitely cultures that you know certain industries have. Finance has a very sort of clear one. If you go hang around, you know people in finance. You see there's a certain culture among finance people. So, yeah, so culture is not just something that is about nationality, because here in Dubai we have a Dubai culture which isn't Arabic culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It has some roots in Arabic culture, but it also has a lot of things added from Indian culture and British culture and all the people that have come here, and we've created something that is now a Dubai culture, but it's sort of its own thing.
Speaker 1:Now, what's your Dubai experience and what has it been like for you the past 15 years? Has it been easy peasy, has it been turbulent, or what's been the monumental times that you've had here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely not been easy peasy. I don't know if it's ever been easy peasy. It's always been a bit of a challenge but I've had some really great times through all of that. So if you can be going through some challenges but having some really great memories that you're building along the way, that's okay. I don't mind working for that. So it has been hard. There have been certainly tough, tough years, tough moments, but I think you know I don't sort of associate that with Dubai. I think that's life.
Speaker 2:If I was somewhere else I would have a different experience but also have highs and lows. So so you know, dubai has changed a little bit over the years. People that I used to work with and have friends with a lot of them I'm still still friends with and still in contact with, but the people I spend most of my time with has evolved and changed over the years. Um, but you know, the uh, the feeling of Dubai is still there and that's what I got when I first came. And you know, I went away abroad recently and came back a week ago and I'm like that feeling again that you get when you're here, there is this.
Speaker 2:There is a good feeling here, and the reason I came, or the what I noticed, it's never a number or a project or something. For me, it was a I felt. I felt there was this feeling that there isn't a limit here and everywhere out, especially in the UK and I think Ireland also, you're reminded of your limits. Don't get too big for your boots, especially in Ireland, actually, because they like to shoot you down if you get too, sort of like.
Speaker 1:Dream too big. Dream too big, start dreaming a little smaller.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they love to just tease you and take the piss out of you, but and it's not probably done to put you down- that's probably not why people intend to do it, it's just the culture. But um, I felt, certainly when I was younger I had big ideas and I knew I could do them I had an incredible confidence for someone who hadn't done an awful lot um, but I knew I could.
Speaker 1:Where did that confidence come from?
Speaker 2:So there is a certain amount of confidence that comes from being loved and having a good mother, and I think that was something I was very lucky to have. Then there's the other type of confidence that you get from trying something and doing it and succeeding. And sometimes you have to go through a few things and fail in order to get there, but those things don't give you confidence. That might help you to learn how to do it. But when you do something and succeed, then you know right, when I set my mind to something, when I focus on it and I put in the time and I and I, you know, go through the ups and the downs in order to get there, I get there right. And I think for me that really came through sport.
Speaker 2:When I was younger I was a very good athlete. Um, I I was one of the best in Great Britain for track and field. Um, I smashed all of our school records. Uh well, not all of them, I I smashed the most that anybody had ever broken. I had eight school records, mainly for throwing. Like I was a discus thrower. I was quite well known for that. But then I got into decathlon and then I got a sports scholarship to a very big sports school called Millfield, which you know is arguably the best sports school in the world. They've had the most number of medals at the Olympics of any school in the world, and they do you know swimming and rugby and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2:so getting a scholarship there was great. And then I was among people who they were all like me, you know. There's me talking big about how I'm and I got shot down pretty quickly because it's like, look, we all represent our countries. You know like it was like. You know there was people who, uh, you know, were captain of, like, the England cricket team for under 20s, but they also did England hockey, england tennis, got a British record in the javelin all in one person and it was like they could. They could have achieved anything, and so it was amazing to be around those kinds of people. But sports was something I became strong in and I succeeded in, and it all started from me sort of figuring out that maybe this was something I would want to invest my time in and then thinking what if I could train at this and be like really good, like an actual athlete, like try and get like national level, international level, and just thinking I'm going to do it, I'm going to try, and if I fail, like whatever, like.
Speaker 2:but like you know, let's try. And then actually seeing myself go from next thing to the next thing and so that, I think, left me with a mindset of set your eyes on something, figure out how to do it, work on it and just keep going. And you know, have you ever listened to someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger talk about how, like you know, every bench press was getting me closer to my vision, you know like this.
Speaker 2:You know, I never listened to him as a kid, but that was certainly what I learned from. That is just about fixating, and I was obsessed. I was an obsessive type of person and I probably still am.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was something that I think I obsessed more about than anyone else. So when I'd go to these competitions, I knew who they all were, I knew who their coaches were, I knew what they got in their last event. I was obsessed and I had that personality, and maybe that's related to me living in a little cottage in the woods and having nothing else to think about and no other other distractions where was your father alongside all this?
Speaker 1:where did you? Was that in the picture? The family picture?
Speaker 2:um, so it's an interesting story with my dad because, um, my mum and dad divorced when I was well. I never remember them being together. Basically, my dad lived in London when I was young and my mum lived in the countryside, and so me and my sister would go up and see my dad in the countryside every weekend and that was super cool, right, because you know he would take us places in London and you know we'd go to the planetarium and he had lots of money, like comparatively compared to my mum, and so it was always exciting because he just had to look after us for the weekend and he'd, you know, spoil us. We got to drink coca-cola and go to mcdonald's and stuff, you know. So, uh, so that was kind of cool. But one thing I didn't know when I was younger, um, but now I understand it is, um, when I was probably about six or seven.
Speaker 2:So just to give you a bit of background, my dad is a very creative person. He set up an advertising agency. He's an incredible photographer, videographer, artist, but he was never really a very good businessman and he had made a lot of money and had been successful because of his talents. He became the creative director. Director of jay, walter thompson, and then set up his own business.
Speaker 2:And one day he got a knock on the door from the police and they said do you know the whereabouts of this person? And he said well, we don't, but he's our accountant and we've been trying to get in touch with him for like two weeks and we don't know where he is. And the policeman said well, we suggest you look into your finances, because he's now been reported as having stolen money from 12 other companies and we think he's stolen money from you. And when they looked into it, what had happened is they had given the accountant the actual access to the bank account, so everything that was being presented to them was all forged.
Speaker 2:You know graph showing yeah, we're making money, and all of this, and meanwhile money was flowing out of the bank and it was quite a considerable amount of money. So only when I was about, I think I seem to remember it's funny how you remember certain things I remember being on the phone to my dad when I lived in Paris, and that was when I was about 18, 19. And I had. I asked him about that and I said what happened to that guy? He said, well, he was probably living his best life in the Cayman Islands or something, but he was never found, and so my dad at that point and I didn't really understand it at that stage, but my dad sold his house for like next to nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um well, sorry when I say next to nothing, this is like one of those Donald Trump moments where he says my dad just lent me a billion dollars, uh, but he sold his house for about 250,000 pounds when it could have been sold for 400,000 pounds. My mum likes to send me, um, every time it's being sold. Now it's going for about 25 million pounds, oh God. So he sold it in a rush and thought he could retire. On that move to France and for a while I would go to France and I even went to school in France, and that was again another cultural kind of clash. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting story, because my dad was like, yeah, we'll just put you in school in the local town, and I didn't speak a word of French. So there I am sort of being just French thrown at me and I'm like what does that?
Speaker 1:mean.
Speaker 2:And luckily there was one English guy who spoke English and French, who was called Peter, and he was brilliant. There was another guy, actually as well, who was English, so that was good and I became friends with some French kids, um and but it was a, you know, really like being chucked in the deep end going to a new school in another country and everybody speaks French.
Speaker 2:What's worse is, the teacher was beyond abusive. She used to. I remember her smashing the kid's head on the table and Peter who was the English guy, he was quite cheeky she would pull him by the ear and so, like with me, I was just like I don't know what to say, just act up. So she never actually, I think maybe she pulled my ear once or something and I heard it like click, you know, but but she was abusive. And so there I am in the school just trying not to say a word wrong, because she's just, she was an absolute horror and um, so anyway, so I, uh, I would go to see my dad in France for a while.
Speaker 2:But then, you know, when you turn to a teenager I was at boarding school I want to spend more time with my friends. I didn't really see my dad. For my whole teenage period, I think, from age 12 to 21, I didn't see my dad, and it wasn't that we ever fell out or had any problems with each other, but there wasn't this sort of magnetic thing pulling us together. And so, whilst I was sort of, you know, doing all this athletic stuff and I was at different, you know athletic events every weekend. You know he was in France so he wasn't really around then. So there was this sort of period where he wasn't sort of around and I never cared or minded because I wanted to be with my friends and doing other stuff. But I think it did affect me to some degree because as an adult.
Speaker 1:How do you think that impacts you now? Because I think when you're younger you kind of. You're too busy to kind of really understand.
Speaker 2:I didn't know then, but I had a really hard edge. I was always. You know, you've seen me on social media or on my tv show. You know I'm quite happy-go-lucky and I've always been like that yeah but certainly when I was younger, if, if you pushed me to the hard edge, it was going to end badly and I had some frustration. And now I look back I sort of maybe can relate the two together.
Speaker 1:When you say frustration, how does that look?
Speaker 2:Just nobody could ever fuck with me, because I would. It was just never going to happen. I would have died before letting that happen. So, um, and I still have a little bit of that in me, but it just doesn't come out in such a um, it doesn't. It's not evident, basically, and and I I think you know, and so there I was, living in Paris and having a great time when I was 18, 19. And I was still the happy-go-lucky guy, but if someone tried to thought they could have the last laugh on me, that was going to end really badly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so and I look back, almost a little bit embarrassed at how I was back then, but also feeling a little bit sorry for someone who didn't understand what was going on in his life Now I'm, you know, I can maybe look with a bit more maturity yeah, that frustration, but or let's say it's controlled and I channel it into progressive things but yeah, there was definitely a sort of slightly frustrated teenager or young adult.
Speaker 1:That's kind of natural for that to happen, though. I think in your teenage years to kind of have not be able to manage your emotions as well as you do now because you're more mature now, you've been through lots of life experiences yeah, but I wouldn't be embarrassed of that if anything like so.
Speaker 2:I don't think it would lead you to where you are right now today yeah, I'm not embarrassed when I say, okay, I was, I was a, you know, uh, a lost soul a little bit. But I just look at things how I was and, um, that's not what I stand for anymore. And um, you know, I came from a place where there's a lot more, a lot more desperation, and now I'm in a place where I don't have that and and I can be. I look back at things and I go God, that was immoral.
Speaker 1:That was wrong.
Speaker 2:Things where I realized I lied about things or I stole something or I got in a fight about something, things I find so embarrassing now I would never want to be associated with that. But it was a different Paris, because that that guy had a different, a different set of a different hand to deal with. It's so much easier life when you've, when you've, you know you've got things, you know you have, you have, um, uh, a purpose, you have money, you have control over your ego because you're not fragile. I have the luxury of that now. I didn't when I was younger.
Speaker 1:Has your ego gotten in the way recently in anything?
Speaker 2:now that you're more mature, would you say you know, I let's just say look, I certainly have an ego, but it's, it's controlled now and I use it for for positive effect. Um, you know, I like to use the analogy that my ego is the accelerator and my humility is the brakes. And when the accelerator is going too fast, I'm pretty good at knowing it's time to apply the brakes. But if I didn't have that ego then you know, I don't think I would work so hard For me, if I'm working on something and I see someone else come out with something better, I'm like I've got to get moving, I've got to do something better. So it comes from this place of not wanting to be insignificant or adding enough value or being someone of importance in the world. I do have an ego for that and I just try and channel it in a positive way, you know, to work harder, to produce something to you know what I mean and in a good way.
Speaker 1:That's super Like. Everyone has an ego. It's just natural. You have this little inner voice inside your head and it's the thing that keeps you driving on in the craziest times. And what I've obviously wanted to talk about today the most is your journey of rowing across the Pacific Ocean, 5,000 kilometers. I just was like when I saw this. I was like what has driven this guy to want to do this? Where did that ego come from? Where, like, can you explore that a little bit further?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so where does it? Where does it root from?
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm going around now. There's so many things I want to speak to you about, but there's just one thing today that I'm like I need you to dive into, because this has just been incredible where does it really like, originate from and root from?
Speaker 2:I don't know, but there's always this kind of adventurous side of me wanted to achieve big things and take on big challenges. And I did watch um, a documentary of this guy who I think he was about, sort of he was having his midlife crisis. He maybe was like 50 years old, he had a family and he just decided I'm gonna row across the pacific ocean and he got blown off track by 17 days in a storm and I looked at and said that's one thing I would never do. I would do anything, but I'm not doing that. What do you?
Speaker 2:know, so I would say seven years, no sorry, 2014,. Christmas morning I woke up in my bed alone and not a lot of interesting plans for Christmas that day and it's usually a good time to have a bit of a think, and I think Christmas is because it's such a sentimental time and you wish that you're with your family. I just thought I there were a couple of things that were where was your bed? I was in um T-com.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's where I lived at the time, or Basha Heights now, and I woke up and I just thought there's just this feeling of like life isn't where I wanted it to be. I had recently broken up with a long-term girlfriend. Business money wasn't where it should have been. I'd set up businesses and it hadn't worked out where it should have been. I'd set up businesses and it hadn't worked out. You know, and I thought you know, is this going to continue or what you know like? And so the first thing I did I was like, right, I'm putting a lot of effort in. It wasn't that I wasn't trying, but I thought how do I get like 5% more?
Speaker 2:return on my effort, you know, because if I can just get a bit more, a bit more success. And at that point I was like you know what? I wasn't a heavy drinker but, I, drank like any other English guy and I was like, let's throw that out of the bin, let's throw that away. And so, and that was what the 25 of december and on the 9th of january, I made the decision I'm quitting, quitting drinking alcohol, and pretty much been the same since then.
Speaker 1:So so how long you?
Speaker 2:well, that's 10 years ago, yeah yeah yeah, so uh, for seven years I've been absolutely zilch, and then I loosened up a little bit recently, but now it's like I don't really feel like I need it or want it, so it's not really a habit anymore. But in that year everything started changing for me. I got fit. I went from being overweight to being pretty lean and mean. I got my business that I was working on under control and I had this vision on that morning of Christmas of what I wanted life to be like and I thought I want to do big adventures.
Speaker 2:I want to climb Everest. I want to climb K2. I want to cross an ocean. I want to go around the world. I want to travel. I want to party. I want to meet people. I want to climb K2. I want to cross an ocean. I want to go around the world. I want to travel. I want to party. I want to meet people. I want to be on the red carpets. I want to know celebrities. I want this to be the last Christmas that I'm not with my family.
Speaker 2:I just thought of everything from the family type things to the ego type things, and I want to make money. You know, the family type things to the ego type things, you know and and you know I want to make money, yeah. So I was like right, and I and I visualized it and thought about what that world looks like. And I had this idea already that I wanted to do a TV show about a guy who does this right and, you know, inspire other people to sort of step outside their usual routine, to give them information about how to do things, but also to make it entertaining. And that's where I started with my show, guy in Dubai. And then, on New Year's Day of 2021, it was probably the next time I actually sort of took five minutes to lie in bed and think of it for a bit and at that time I was like like right, I've created Guy in Dubai, I've broadcast it now on Amazon Prime and Emirates Airlines and Dubai TV and OSN and all these things.
Speaker 2:So I've kind of achieved a lot of what I had, um, imagined on 2014 Christmas morning. So I was like the vision is partly there, but these big challenges, the big, big challenges you know I'd done a lot. I learned how to skydive, I learned how to race power boats and all these things. But the big challenges, like climbing everest and crossing oceans. I was like, okay, write them down. I was like five big challenges in five years and uh, and I had a few ideas, but I hadn't. I didn't have five and I wasn't quite sure what they would all be. Um, and then my friend, ollie, uh, from my school, who knew I'd been doing all this stuff and he was, I think he was kind of dropping it in to see whether there'd be any interest. But he says me and my brother are going to row the atlantic ocean. And I said that's mad. No, no, sorry, I said. I said who's your next? Uh, he said we're doing as a team of four, but we're only two now I said who your other two.
Speaker 2:And he said we don't know yet. I said I'm your third man. And he goes well, we're thinking about it. And you know he didn't want to say anything then because he didn't want to commit to anybody in particular at that time. But then a month later he said you know how serious were you? And I said, well, I was serious, but you know, maybe before committing to something like this, I should like consult with family and think about this. And, and you know, because this is, this is dangerous, um, and I should talk with people who care about me and see if anyone wants to talk me out of it. And he's like, okay, well, take your time. Um, oh, and, by the way, we're doing the Pacific Ocean, not the Atlantic. And I was like, oh god, uh, anyway, I.
Speaker 2:I called him back in about half an hour and said I couldn't find anybody. No one cares, I'm in, let's, let's do this, uh, and and so so he spurred the idea. He was the originator of this idea, and, but it had been implanted in my mind about six months before that I'm going to do a big challenge, um, and so this just had all the. This was a recipe for everything I was looking for, um, and you know we that was. That was two years before we took off and it was two years of work, of, of raising sponsorship money, putting on a charity gala dinner, raising charity money, learning everything about sea survival, training for our fitness in order to be able to row 14 hours a day every day for 39 days, just learning everything we could, and we became obsessed by it and, um, it ended up being the biggest adventure of my life and probably the most life-changing experience of my life how do you prep for that?
Speaker 2:well, there's a lot of things you have to do, um, so the, the big factor, the the first thing anyone has to be able to understand.
Speaker 2:If you ever want to row across an ocean or climb Mount Everest or run seven marathons on seven continents which is something I'm doing at the moment or any of these big challenges, you have to understand how to pay for it, because they're very expensive, and most people, unless they're wealthy, will have to raise sponsorship money.
Speaker 2:And so then the question is is well, what do sponsors get out of it? And so it's about viewership and getting them exposure. So how are you going to do that? So you have to have a plan, a marketing plan of how you're going to, a content plan of, effectively, how you're going to bring in these sponsors and tie them into the narrative of what you're going to. A content plan of, effectively, how you're going to bring in these sponsors and tie them into the narrative of what you're doing and promote them through this whole whirlwind of media that's going to be created. That's the thing that you have to first understand, and that's something that I did understand, because I'd created TV shows and I created a documentary about the rowing, and we raised a huge amount of money.
Speaker 2:Um all in all I think uh, with uh sponsorship money plus the charity money and the costs of all the gala dinner and everything, I think it was about 400,000 pounds. Wow. So there's a lot of money Um that's one element so, yeah, well, that's the.
Speaker 2:That's the first part. So the question is is are you fit enough to row the ocean? It's like, how are you going to make the money? Yeah, so, so like, and and that's always got to be the first point then you've got to learn about the, the skills of being in a small boat surrounded by big waves. That's going to be first aid, because you're not, you can't, there's no ambulances out there, so you've got to be able to look after your, your crew and yourself.
Speaker 2:Um see, survival.
Speaker 2:What happens when that boat capsizes and you need to get in the life raft and you need to be able to survive for however long it's going to be. I mean, people have survived for 72 days in life rafts, um, uh, but you've definitely got to be able to minimum survive for three days, and you might not have water, you might not have food, so what do you do? So, sea survival? So we had to learn that um, uh, navigation and weather routing. You know understanding, um, the best angles to take with the wind and the waves and, uh, you know reading weather, um, and you know navigating according to that um, we did an ocean rowing course which was specific for that um, and then there's the physical training. So learning about that, learning all about training for zone two, low heart rate training, as well as increasing your vo2 max, and the types of programs that are good for that, your nutrition, so you, you be. There is no end to how much you can learn, so for us it was like right we've got two years, how much can we learn?
Speaker 2:So for us it was like right, we've got two years, how much can we learn in two years? And then we get on that boat and within 20 minutes we realize we don't know enough.
Speaker 1:Nothing will prepare you for the real thing.
Speaker 2:And we only really understood it by the time we got to the end. Meanwhile, it was learning on the go, and if we were to do it again, there would be a whole load of other new things that we would be presented with that we didn't know about.
Speaker 1:so it's um do you think it would be mentally tougher to do it for the second time?
Speaker 2:maybe because I think you you remember all the good times and you have this sort of glory in your mind and then you're probably hit with all the negative stuff that you didn't really remember you know, because you kind of got through that and you were expecting that the first time. So I think, yeah, it can be difficult the second time around, if you try it.
Speaker 1:I watched your documentary and I saw the phone call that you had with your mother before you set sail. How did you feel when you had that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was. It's very difficult to say goodbye. I did not tell my mum, or in any way put it across to my mum, quite how dangerous it was, and I knew. If I told my mum how dangerous it was and I knew my. If I told my mom how dangerous it was, that's what she would understand. If I didn't tell my mom it was that dangerous, that's what she would understand. She didn't really understand how big a challenge it was.
Speaker 2:My mom hasn't come from an educated background and these sorts of things are completely alien to her. So she only really started to understand what was going on after we took off. And the press are getting in touch with her. All of her friends are watching it and are like you know, this is amazing. My sister in particular one of my sisters in particular was really got into it and was following it. So she, you know, when you realize what's going on around you, she's like this isn't normal. This isn't like when Paris used to go and throw the discus. She's seen me along the way do different things, but she could see that this was something a lot bigger. So I tried not to put that kind of worry in her mind, but in the end, the worry started to come around when everybody was like, are you not worried about him, is it not, you know? And more and more of that came in.
Speaker 2:And then, when she started getting little bits of news that you know, I've been seasick for three days and she's not able to speak with me, and you know, and that been seasick for three days and she's not able to speak with me, and you know, and that we would then hit Storm Calvin. And you know, she landed in Hawaii, to you know, on the date that or the date before she was hoping for us to arrive, but it's now like they're not coming for another seven days. They're in Storm Calvin and there's, you know, now like they're not coming for another seven days, they're in storm calvin and there's, there's, you know, the whole of hawaii started going on to under, um, uh, you know the the sort of emergency situation of preparing for this storm, and she's thinking my son's in a tiny boat in the ocean, um, so you know, the worry came then. Uh, at that point, though, I was uh, on the satellite phone, you know, but the truth was I was chilled as hell. I was like, yeah, mom, everything's fine, the sun's great, like it's a bit windy. Yeah, I was, I was.
Speaker 2:By then I had gone a little bit mad and become completely numb. To to fear, fear is Fear was gone by that point.
Speaker 1:What day does fear just disappear?
Speaker 2:Well, it depends on your experience. I mean, for us, we hit two storms. One was on about day three and lasted till day 10. And the other one was on day 34 and lasted till we got there on day 39. We finished a day before the second storm. We didn't care, we were like, well, hey, we were surfing the waves, we were having the best time of our life, we were loving it. I was crazy, I was just like let's go. I was standing up on the boat and I was just like it was fun. But that's because the first storm had knocked it out of us. Um, um, so so, because we had that storm early on and the waves were huge. You know talking about 40 foot waves coming up the side, freezing cold waters. That would put you in hypothermia in 30 minutes, and you know, um, that that, uh, that was a scary moment. I remember times when, when I was just like I was tested did you
Speaker 1:die like yeah, did you? Did that ever come as a thought?
Speaker 2:yeah, there was a couple of times when, when, when it was when it was presented that this could be life-threatening, like I mean, you saw the documentary. There's a moment there where we almost got hit by a cargo ship.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, when you think about it, the Pacific Ocean is about one half the size of the globe. If you ever decide to look at the globe that way around, it's bigger than all the land mass on the planet, plus another North and South America, so you think that there's enough space for everybody. And the fact that we almost this boat was coming at us dead on and didn't know that we were there, you know, there was a moment where I thought I felt really stupid because I was like I'm not even going to say goodbye to anybody. This is it because I thought when we, when that boat hits us, even if I jump in the water, our boat would be smashed, our life raft would have being blown away by the wind, we didn't have our life jackets on at that point in time and we would have died in the water. We were at that point in time we were three days away from rescue. So, yeah, it flashed in my mind.
Speaker 2:But, you can't let it overload your mind, because you've got 60 seconds to change the course of what's going to happen and it requires you to think very, very clearly about what you need to do. And you know, we got straight on the radio. The reason why it was coming dead at us was actually because it was actually going to miss us. But we got on the radio to it to tell it to turn away from us. But it had actually gone the other direction and turned directly into us. But now we don't have enough time to move, you know so. So, uh, we got back on the radio. We were like, get the flares, you know, coming up with a, you know, and within the time we had, we managed to fix the situation and then we laughed about it and then we carried on with the day. Um, and you know, it was just another day. It was something we talk about more because it's a lot more epic than other things that would have happened. But many, many things happened almost daily that were, um, a bit, a bit hairy hairy.
Speaker 1:well, how to explain what hairy is to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, harry just being you know, just like you know, just waves that could have knocked us, could have capsized the boat. I mean there was. I remember one time a wave hit us really hard. It snapped the oar.
Speaker 1:I saw.
Speaker 2:I think that was on the documentary yeah it actually snapped into Ollie's ribs and he was really hurt from that. We had to then go on the para anchor, which is like our safety line. It's like a parachute that goes under the water, that creates drag and aligns the boat with the wind and the waves. It's our sort of last point of cool safety line, and we actually ended up pulling that out twice in the first 10 days. Um and um. Yeah, there were little moments. I remember one wave just came out of nowhere one time and me and Harry were just on the deck and, yeah, out of nowhere, and it really almost knocked us right over.
Speaker 1:How was your mindset throughout the whole duration of it? When you're constantly looking at the sea, do you become delusional? No duration of it, like as in when you're constantly looking at the sea, do you become delusional, like what's?
Speaker 2:uh, no, no, uh, it was all good we we had a motto called a happy boat is a fast boat okay and it was all we knew.
Speaker 2:that morale on this little tiny, you know glorious canoe or it was really was going to be really important that we lift each other's spirits up and we don't have a chip at each other and nag or anything like that or inflict our bad energy on anyone if we're having a bad day. So it was all about keeping morale up and because morale was up and we kept each other laughing, we kept each other going, we were always in a pretty good way. I always I enjoyed like I was going to say I enjoyed every day of it. The first 10 days were hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Remembering that it was so difficult in the first 10 days.
Speaker 1:What made it so?
Speaker 2:difficult the cold, the storm that we're in, um, we had, we're in the process of address, adjusting to never having more than an hour and a half sleep, um at a time, um, burning 8 000 calories a day.
Speaker 2:For the first three days, I was burning 8 000 calories a day, and For the first three days, I was burning 8,000 calories a day and hadn't eaten in three days because I was seasick, so I was nauseous, so that was not a particularly fun time, but then, to balance that, I was also very happy that division was coming alive and we're now doing what we said we were going to do and what I had dreamed on christmas day 2014 and new year's day 2021 was I was in it and I love that. And that happens many, many times where I'm in the vision that I had, and so that gives me a lot of happiness when I when when that happens. So, despite the fact I'm cold and I got, you know, seawater running down my jacket and and, and you know, just not feeling good blisters on your hands, everywhere, you know I'm in the vision and and so.
Speaker 1:So it was completely, uh, overridden by that feeling so I know you had 55 days of food right of 8 000 calories that you would have burnt. What does that look like? What would you eat during the day?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we've got three types of food, so the main thing that we eat is what's called freeze-dried food, which is dehydrated packets of food and beautiful yeah, you pour water, add it in, give it a couple of minutes and, uh, you know it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:Those stuff we had was called real term, that they sponsored us. I liked it, yeah, um, there are a couple of ones that I wouldn't want to eat all the time, but, um, it was all right. Then we had our snacks. So we had a snack pack every day and that would be about 3,000 calories and that had all our goodies like biscuits and chocolates and biltong and stuff like this. And then we had what was called our wet food, which is a little bit like army rations.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't need to be rehydrated, because it's already like that, which means it's ready to eat. And most of that was used as a reserve in case our water maker broke down because we wouldn't have been able to cook the other stuff. So, um, so that was a reserve set of food, but we had a few extras as well. That was always quite nice to eat and we could eat that hot cold I mean we used when we started.
Speaker 2:We'd obviously want to cook everything yeah and then we realized that cooking everything just takes time and we valued the time more than more than anything. So we were just like you know what, we'll just eat it cold and save myself 10 minutes, because 10 minutes is I want to sleep, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we ended up becoming like that what was it like when you reach shore like? What was that moment like for you?
Speaker 2:so, before we reach shore, we'd just gone through this amazing storm, storm calvin, and we started having bets on. We always would have bets with each other. We're now still on our little whatsapp group having bets with each other. Right now we've got I've got 20 pounds resting on a rowing team that's rowing across the Pacific right now as we speak, and we're all teasing each other about you know who's going to win? We were always like that. So we had a bet on on how far away we would be when we see land, and I think I bet 65, ollie bet 60, harry bet 45. And we got to those points and we didn't see land. We got to 45, still didn't see land. 30 nautical miles away from where we're meant to be, we still can't see land. And we're wondering how did the Polynesians ever find this? And are we even in the right place? The sun goes down and I was adamant that we have to arrive at daytime and if we had carried on rowing full pace, we would arrive at night time.
Speaker 2:So I said we're gonna, we're gonna stop for two hours and we saw a little bit of glimmer of light. I mean, that must be the. And then, when we woke up, or let's just say, just before the sun started coming up and it's funny because when the sun rises before you can see the sun the sky illuminates. And the sky had just illuminated and we could see the silhouette of an island and we're like there's our island, and it was absolutely stunning. I mean, the island of kawaii is incredible. It's where they filmed jurassic park, it's just paradise.
Speaker 2:And the sun came up and it was orange. And just as the sun came up, rain came around us at 365 degrees. We could see it on the horizon in every direction, which was unique because the whole way over, if it was raining where we were, we could see so far that we could see where it wasn't raining. We can see 30 miles. That way it's not raining.
Speaker 2:Or if it was raining over there, we could see it's raining there but not here. So we had such clear view of everything. We could see where it was raining, where it wasn't. But I never remember a time where it was raining all around at 365 degrees for as far as we could see, but it did and it created this mist off of the off of the uh, off the water that then illuminated orange and it was. It was, I swear it was biblical. It was almost like god saying here's your island, and we just took off our tops and just put our hands in the air and just got soaked because we knew it didn't matter that we were getting wet this time, because we're not going to go and have to sleep in it, we're going to be home.
Speaker 2:And we still had about nine miles, nine nautical miles, to to get to land. And, uh, you know we were rowing so fast and I, and you know I was trying to say like when the media boat comes out, because there was a boat that was going to come and take the videos and photos. I was like, let's go slow, let's take our time, we don't need to rush it, let's get good footage.
Speaker 2:And Harry in particular, I remember, because he's got two kids and a wife and he was like let's go, come on. So he really wanted to get back and see them. And I was like no, no, slow down.
Speaker 2:so uh, and then we got there and we had about 200 friends and family and people that would come to see us, um, some from the island of kawaii, uh, to see us land there. And yeah it was. It was an amazing moment, um, uh, yeah, I'll. I'll remember it for the rest of my life, because when you haven't seen a single person, you haven't seen land, uh, for for 39 days you haven't been connected to anything, um, uh it. It's amazing to see people again, especially when it's your mum, um, but I think we had all gone through something, through this journey, that when we arrived at that point in time, we were different people.
Speaker 2:And you know, there's something about being secluded from the world, not having social media, not knowing what's in the news. You know, really having no connection with anybody and just being able to talk with your friends. That's all you have. And you start to think of all the things that you have in your life and realize that you just never think about them. You just don't miss them. You don't miss the invitation to the launch of the new TV show that's on, or the opening of a new restaurant, or what's happening with your work. You just forget it and you realize you don't miss it at all. And then, on the other side of that, you realize that there's maybe a few things, maybe you could count them on one hand, and most of them are people that you miss uncontrollably. Oh.
Speaker 1:Take your time.
Speaker 2:Sorry, it's a bit of an emotional topic because I think what I realized and I think we all did, but certainly me I realized I had taken those things for granted in a big way. And so, you know, arriving was it was, you know, sort of seeing all those people. I sort of feel they looked at us like four guys who had rowed across the ocean that they had come to see, but we saw it as it was us that had come to say thank you, and so it's a deep topic, just because I know how bad I had been in the past, how I didn't appreciate things, and I try ever since that point to remind myself to appreciate everything and don't take things for granted. And we all do, and I still do, I'll be honest with you but it always gets kicked back in Paris. Just remember when that's not there, you know. When it's gone, you'll then appreciate it, but then it's too late.
Speaker 2:So I'd say you know, that was an overwhelming realization through this whole journey and it has changed me in a big way. And it was weird because, uh, I then, you know, arriving in this amazing um celebration and I ended up staying in hawaii for two months and just the most beautiful place, most beautiful people had the time of my life. But coming back to real life again, coming back to Dubai, was difficult and people who knew me knew Paris isn't there anymore.
Speaker 1:You're different.
Speaker 2:There's a different Paris and people do talk about post-expedition blues. I've got a good friend called Ryan Pyle and he has a TV show called extreme treks and we we go hiking together every weekend and there was a time when he was really um down about the fact that he had to stop his show and treks because of covid and, and so when I said to him I don't think I'm all right, like, like, like I can't connect with people anymore. I just I listened to people and I just don't want anything to do with them. And there was, there was just this. I just didn't feel like I fitted in my old life anymore. Um, and he was like it's okay, buddy, let's get on a call. And he used he wanted to talk about it, cause you know he on a call and he wanted to talk about it because you know he goes through this all the time.
Speaker 2:And he said to me look, the key is not to adjust back into your old life live the new one the key is that you have to keep is to have to find a way to keep living an epic life, because it the the thing that's wrong in this scenario isn't what you did out on the ocean and what you learned about yourself and the amazing adventure you had.
Speaker 2:What is wrong about the world is this world that you live in 99% of the time, that is full of politics and a lot of toxic things and just a mundane lifestyle where we're stuck in like a machine that we just can't get out of. And he said you, you just got to keep it alive. Um, and I agree with him, but it's a it's a difficult thing to do. You know like to forever be, you know in nature and out and out in the open and, and you know, doing your dreams. It's hard to keep that going all the time.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. It's been really really amazing chatting with you today. Before we finish up, I just want to round back to what's the future for Paris now and what's next.
Speaker 2:Right, well, let's start with what's next. So what's next? Uh, tomorrow I'm flying to pakistan to go to k2. It's the second biggest mountain in the world. It's, um, they call it the savage mountain. It's, uh, the most deadliest mountain in the world, I believe. So that's, uh, that's going to be an adventure. Um, I'm also in training to run seven marathons and seven days on seven continents, which we're going to do in January. We've just raised money for charity for that and we're getting sponsors on now. We're doing the whole commercial part of it right now and I started the training. We're making an eight-part docu-series about that.
Speaker 2:And the future well, who knows? But I am quite happy and proud that I've managed to at least lay the foundations of the life that I want to live. I love my work, I love my friends and the people around me. My life is good, but it could just be. You know, it could always be a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Now I don't want to chase that, because I think, you know, I think, jim Carrey, who did that hilarious speech where he got up and got an Oscar and he said I won't go to sleep tonight thinking about being second time Golden Globe winner, jim Carrey, I'll go to bed dreaming of being three time golden globe winner, jim Carrey. I'll go to bed dreaming of being three time golden globe winning, global globe, winning Jim Carrey, because you know you can't always be thinking that you need to be more, so I always try and be happy with where I am and I am. But I've got things in place now where you know I can keep working on it, just a little bit, bit by bit and just building it bit by bit and, you know, building on my friendships more and more, and I'm quite happy to do that. I don't think I'm looking for a change in life drastically. I just feel, you know, there's more work to do on what I've already laid down.
Speaker 1:Well, best of luck on the next adventure, and I want to say thank you for today. You've been amazing.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me on your podcast.